5 ms·

Good write up, and I think it accurately sums up many people's feelings about AI. One thing I would disagree with is the idea of AI getting a do over. Even if

by pesus 4mo ago

Good write up, and I think it accurately sums up many people's feelings about AI. One thing I would disagree with is the idea of AI getting a do over. Even if they somehow managed to do that, the idea of AI is fundamentally tainted for whole generations of people, and its reputation only gets worse every day. There's no coming back from that any time soon.

altcognito 4mo ago
"The idea of AI is fundamentally tainted" What does this even mean? You don't like machine learning? You don't like the letters AI? There's no coming back to what? Do you work in the tech industry?
- wyre 4mo ago
  you okay? why do u need to be so patronizing? did you read tfa? they're obviously talking about the public's perception of LLM's, especially outside of the tech industry. "the idea of AI is fundamentally tainted" is not a confusing statement in reference to that.
  - altcognito 4mo ago
    Condescending, I was condescending, and I cut back on it some. I read the op and authors text as hope and cope that AI is held back by popular sentiment because they have some sort of personal fears about it. Computers are tools, and LLMs are a tool. Is it wrong to have issues about the way tech companies are abusing the system? Where were these people when other industries were being "disrupted" and breaking the law? I have a lot of issues with tech companies and their CEOs, but very little problems with the technology.
    - wyre 4mo ago
      No, it's not wrong to have issues about the way tech companies abuse the system, and people have complained in the past about it, people have been complaining for years about Facebook, AirBnb, Uber disrupting and breaking the law, but their voices are powerless against their supporters and politicians that are in the pocket of these companies or their major investors.
- jorvi 4mo ago
  "AI" to most laypeople means LLMs and imagegen. They have no clue that anyone with an iPhone has been using "AI" since iOS 15(?) when it got stuff like photo object selection, instant OCR and voice isolation.
  - runarberg 4mo ago
    AI is a terrible name anyway and I am glad people have stopped calling stuff like supervised learning, or Markov Chains AI. I think it is better if it just sticks to this awful technology of LLMs and imagegen and will be dropped everywhere else for a better term. We can readopt Machine Learning for the other algorithms, which is significantly better, but still not without flaws. I hope we go further down and just say statistical inference, and if we want to be any more specific and just say which algorithm we are using (supervised learning, Markov Chains, Kalman filter, etc.)
    - benterix 4mo ago
      It would be nice but I have no illusions, it won't happen.
      - joquarky 4mo ago
        In my experience, people like GP will burnout on idealism right around their mid-40s. The dark night of the soul will be sublime.
- pesus 4mo ago
  That's the problem with conflating LLMs and image/video generation - they're all lumped into the same bucket, even when they shouldn't. I mean the idea of AI (or at least what these companies are calling AI) is fundamentally tainted in the public's eye. People aren't suddenly going to start loving it after everything that's happened in the past ~5 years or so, even if it was somehow restarted. > Do you work in the tech industry? Yes, I do. Do you? Is there a point to this condescension?
  - altcognito 4mo ago
    The point is if you come in with imprecise, vague language, you are literally saying something like "I hate math." You blame others -- "They're lumped into the same bucket even when they shouldn't" -- some of that is on you for lumping what is a marketing labels in with the fundamental technology. "People aren't suddenly going to start loving it after everything that's happened in the past ~5 years or so" That's not the way it's going to go. Tools will develop in ways beyond what is seen today, and it will fade into the background noise, just like the internet, search and other tools, but only moreso.
  - jason_oster 4mo ago
    > they're all lumped into the same bucket, even when they shouldn't. Why should they be separate? The same technology generates text, images, video, audio, 3D models, actuator and stepper motor control sequences, video game controller input streams, and literally everything else that can be transformed into data. I'll let alone the question of whether or not any of the tech is "tainted", because it doesn't matter. Planck's principle tells us how this will play out in the long run.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- happytoexplain 4mo ago
  >Do you work in the tech industry? I have for 20 years. I use AI every day. And I agree that the parent's observation is plainly true. Your question is hideously condescending. You should examine what disconnect might be putting you in such a bitter-feeling position compared to most people on HN. This does not necessitate that you are wrong - only that you are perhaps not extending an attempt to connect with humans as much as you could.
  - altcognito 4mo ago
    The idea of AI is not tainted. Public perception of a specific, limited implementation of AI that is over-marketed and overly misapplied may be tainted. Folks who work with technology should have a better estimation for its potential. Even for the grumpy ones, we are generally optimists.
    - soco 4mo ago
      I cannot argue with a true Scotsman argument. Because it's not wrong, but also missing the point. And the point is, philosophy aside, most people you ask they will say they don't like AI. Some will use it, a few not, and most don't care about potentials - they will just say "nah man I'm good"
empath75 4mo ago
Statements like this are just totally detached from reality. AI products are incredibly popular, even amongst people who say they dislike “AI”. Maybe that acronym is tainted, but the technology isn’t going anywhere.
- pesus 4mo ago
  > Statements like this are just totally detached from reality. Funny, I could say the same about this condescending statement. Maybe it depends on who you interact with. I associate with almost no tech people outside of work, and am probably a bit on the younger side compared to most people on HN.
- happytoexplain 4mo ago
  You didn't say anything that conflicts with what the parent said. You are the one who is detached from reality. People use computers and hate computers at the same time. People use programming languages and hate programming languages at the same time. People participate in capitalism and hate capitalism at the same time. It is not hypocritical to hate complex systems and also use them for pragmatic reasons. The difference is just that the delta is larger this time - people use AI and really hate AI. This makes perfect sense when you consider what AI is and does, especially how many different things it does.
- sublinear 4mo ago
  "The technology" isn't all that useful apart from search engine summaries and voice recognition. "Incredibly popular" is an empty statement. Of course everyone uses that stuff. So what? This is all purely iterative on what we already had long before the buzz about "AI". At some point you just have to admit this was all a grift scraped together to drum up some business during an economic downturn. I don't think many are that mad about it, but the hype needs to stop already. People were underwhelmed. We're heading into another AI winter. The datacenters were always for defense and surveillance. Deals will fall through and only half will finish being built. The majority of experts were saying this years ago. Let it go man.
- benterix 4mo ago
  One of the problems is that the term itself got muddled to the point of becoming almost meaningless. It covers anything from pattern recognition, classification, to diffusion models. But the fact remains that many people have a love/hate relationship with LLMs.

by pesus 4mo ago

altcognito 4mo ago

"The idea of AI is fundamentally tainted" What does this even mean? You don't like machine learning? You don't like the letters AI? There's no coming back to what? Do you work in the tech industry?

wyre 4mo ago
you okay? why do u need to be so patronizing? did you read tfa? they're obviously talking about the public's perception of LLM's, especially outside of the tech industry. "the idea of AI is fundamentally tainted" is not a confusing statement in reference to that.
- altcognito 4mo ago
  Condescending, I was condescending, and I cut back on it some. I read the op and authors text as hope and cope that AI is held back by popular sentiment because they have some sort of personal fears about it. Computers are tools, and LLMs are a tool. Is it wrong to have issues about the way tech companies are abusing the system? Where were these people when other industries were being "disrupted" and breaking the law? I have a lot of issues with tech companies and their CEOs, but very little problems with the technology.
  - wyre 4mo ago
    No, it's not wrong to have issues about the way tech companies abuse the system, and people have complained in the past about it, people have been complaining for years about Facebook, AirBnb, Uber disrupting and breaking the law, but their voices are powerless against their supporters and politicians that are in the pocket of these companies or their major investors.
jorvi 4mo ago
"AI" to most laypeople means LLMs and imagegen. They have no clue that anyone with an iPhone has been using "AI" since iOS 15(?) when it got stuff like photo object selection, instant OCR and voice isolation.
- runarberg 4mo ago
  AI is a terrible name anyway and I am glad people have stopped calling stuff like supervised learning, or Markov Chains AI. I think it is better if it just sticks to this awful technology of LLMs and imagegen and will be dropped everywhere else for a better term. We can readopt Machine Learning for the other algorithms, which is significantly better, but still not without flaws. I hope we go further down and just say statistical inference, and if we want to be any more specific and just say which algorithm we are using (supervised learning, Markov Chains, Kalman filter, etc.)
  - benterix 4mo ago
    It would be nice but I have no illusions, it won't happen.
    - joquarky 4mo ago
      In my experience, people like GP will burnout on idealism right around their mid-40s. The dark night of the soul will be sublime.
pesus 4mo ago
That's the problem with conflating LLMs and image/video generation - they're all lumped into the same bucket, even when they shouldn't. I mean the idea of AI (or at least what these companies are calling AI) is fundamentally tainted in the public's eye. People aren't suddenly going to start loving it after everything that's happened in the past ~5 years or so, even if it was somehow restarted. > Do you work in the tech industry? Yes, I do. Do you? Is there a point to this condescension?
- altcognito 4mo ago
  The point is if you come in with imprecise, vague language, you are literally saying something like "I hate math." You blame others -- "They're lumped into the same bucket even when they shouldn't" -- some of that is on you for lumping what is a marketing labels in with the fundamental technology. "People aren't suddenly going to start loving it after everything that's happened in the past ~5 years or so" That's not the way it's going to go. Tools will develop in ways beyond what is seen today, and it will fade into the background noise, just like the internet, search and other tools, but only moreso.
- jason_oster 4mo ago
  > they're all lumped into the same bucket, even when they shouldn't. Why should they be separate? The same technology generates text, images, video, audio, 3D models, actuator and stepper motor control sequences, video game controller input streams, and literally everything else that can be transformed into data. I'll let alone the question of whether or not any of the tech is "tainted", because it doesn't matter. Planck's principle tells us how this will play out in the long run.
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
happytoexplain 4mo ago
>Do you work in the tech industry? I have for 20 years. I use AI every day. And I agree that the parent's observation is plainly true. Your question is hideously condescending. You should examine what disconnect might be putting you in such a bitter-feeling position compared to most people on HN. This does not necessitate that you are wrong - only that you are perhaps not extending an attempt to connect with humans as much as you could.
- altcognito 4mo ago
  The idea of AI is not tainted. Public perception of a specific, limited implementation of AI that is over-marketed and overly misapplied may be tainted. Folks who work with technology should have a better estimation for its potential. Even for the grumpy ones, we are generally optimists.
  - soco 4mo ago
    I cannot argue with a true Scotsman argument. Because it's not wrong, but also missing the point. And the point is, philosophy aside, most people you ask they will say they don't like AI. Some will use it, a few not, and most don't care about potentials - they will just say "nah man I'm good"

empath75 4mo ago

Statements like this are just totally detached from reality. AI products are incredibly popular, even amongst people who say they dislike “AI”. Maybe that acronym is tainted, but the technology isn’t going anywhere.

pesus 4mo ago
> Statements like this are just totally detached from reality. Funny, I could say the same about this condescending statement. Maybe it depends on who you interact with. I associate with almost no tech people outside of work, and am probably a bit on the younger side compared to most people on HN.
happytoexplain 4mo ago
You didn't say anything that conflicts with what the parent said. You are the one who is detached from reality. People use computers and hate computers at the same time. People use programming languages and hate programming languages at the same time. People participate in capitalism and hate capitalism at the same time. It is not hypocritical to hate complex systems and also use them for pragmatic reasons. The difference is just that the delta is larger this time - people use AI and really hate AI. This makes perfect sense when you consider what AI is and does, especially how many different things it does.
sublinear 4mo ago
"The technology" isn't all that useful apart from search engine summaries and voice recognition. "Incredibly popular" is an empty statement. Of course everyone uses that stuff. So what? This is all purely iterative on what we already had long before the buzz about "AI". At some point you just have to admit this was all a grift scraped together to drum up some business during an economic downturn. I don't think many are that mad about it, but the hype needs to stop already. People were underwhelmed. We're heading into another AI winter. The datacenters were always for defense and surveillance. Deals will fall through and only half will finish being built. The majority of experts were saying this years ago. Let it go man.
benterix 4mo ago
One of the problems is that the term itself got muddled to the point of becoming almost meaningless. It covers anything from pattern recognition, classification, to diffusion models. But the fact remains that many people have a love/hate relationship with LLMs.