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Why hasn't Switzerland deployed solar/wind? That seems like a pretty big miss in general. The Swiss grid has almost no wind which is strange for such a mounta

Why hasn't Switzerland deployed solar/wind? That seems like a pretty big miss in general. The Swiss grid has almost no wind which is strange for such a mountainous nation. And solar is also quite low which is also strange given how much empty land exists in Switzerland along with it's relatively low latitude.

julkali 4mo ago
nimby
- cogman10 4mo ago
  Yeah, that seems like it'd be something that would also stop nuclear deployment.
stymaar 4mo ago
See this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48587327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48587327
shermantanktop 4mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foehn_wind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foehn_wind Given how my grandmother said every ailment under the sun was due to the Föhn, putting a windmill up would probably be seen as tempting the fates. /s I'm joking wrt to wind energy, but the cultural associations with wind are real.
Arodex 4mo ago
See this long-form investigation: https://www.heidi.news/explorations/black-out-le-talon-d-achille-electrique-de-la-suisse https://www.heidi.news/explorations/black-out-le-talon-d-ach...
Plankaluel 4mo ago
Regarding wind and mountains. Some perspective from someone from neighboring Tyrol: The reason there is so little wind power: Probably the same reason the western, alpine parts of Austria have basically zero wind power - and why neighbouring Carinthia recently voted in a referendum to ban it completely. People who live in the Alps generally don't like seeing the mountains altered. It is treated almost as sacrilege. And since these areas are heavily dependent on tourism, where the appeal rests on a romantic, Disney-fied fantasy of wild, untamed nature, locals worry that turbines would make the region less attractive to tourists. Of course, this "untouched" landscape is largely a fiction in the first place: most of it looks the way it does precisely because people have lived in it and shaped it for centuries.
- s1artibartfast 4mo ago
  yeah, some it has been shaped by man, but that does not negate or invalidate the fact that they like it the way that it is. My clean dinner table is completely artificial, but that doesnt mean I should be neutral to someone placing a bowl of shit on it.
- palata 4mo ago
  Also wind turbines kill birds and bats, it is an actual problem to be put in the balance. The balance being: do you build a ton of those turbines, or one nuclear plant?
  - Matumio 4mo ago
    They do and it's a problem, but it's a minor issue compared to, say, cars or rat poison. Both kill lots of birds, but somehow when it's wind turbines people suddenly care about the birds. See also: https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/technology-articles/sustainability/renewable-energy/birds-and-wind-turbines/ https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/technology-articles/...
    - cogman10 4mo ago
      People that repeat these lies are very incurious. It's incredible how quickly and easily this lie can be debunked yet it still comes up at the same time wind does. It's almost as bad as the "wind turbines cause cancer" BS. Fortunately people usually have enough common sense to see how ridiculous that one is. But not always.
      - palata 4mo ago
        > Fortunately people usually have enough common sense to see how ridiculous that one is The problem is actually that people don't have enough attention to actually read about it. People are stuck in "I am a smart adult, I don't have to think, whatever I believe is right". Those are actual problems and wind turbines actually deploy mitigations for them. Possible for birds, not for bats. Many endangered bats are killed as a result. Sure, as compared to not giving a shit about the living condition of, say, billions of chickens, it may sound like it doesn't matter. But not everybody wants to live on a lifeless planet surrounded by the worst species ever (I mean humans). > It's almost as bad as the "wind turbines cause cancer" BS. If you genuinely believe it is, then you vastly overestimate your common sense.
Moldoteck 4mo ago
nimby to have solar/wind in alps is even higher vs nimby against nuclear. With nuclear you can at least throw another unit in Aarau

julkali 4mo ago

nimby

cogman10 4mo ago
Yeah, that seems like it'd be something that would also stop nuclear deployment.

stymaar 4mo ago

See this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48587327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48587327

shermantanktop 4mo ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foehn_wind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foehn_wind Given how my grandmother said every ailment under the sun was due to the Föhn, putting a windmill up would probably be seen as tempting the fates. /s I'm joking wrt to wind energy, but the cultural associations with wind are real.

Arodex 4mo ago

See this long-form investigation: https://www.heidi.news/explorations/black-out-le-talon-d-achille-electrique-de-la-suisse https://www.heidi.news/explorations/black-out-le-talon-d-ach...

Plankaluel 4mo ago

Regarding wind and mountains. Some perspective from someone from neighboring Tyrol: The reason there is so little wind power: Probably the same reason the western, alpine parts of Austria have basically zero wind power - and why neighbouring Carinthia recently voted in a referendum to ban it completely. People who live in the Alps generally don't like seeing the mountains altered. It is treated almost as sacrilege. And since these areas are heavily dependent on tourism, where the appeal rests on a romantic, Disney-fied fantasy of wild, untamed nature, locals worry that turbines would make the region less attractive to tourists. Of course, this "untouched" landscape is largely a fiction in the first place: most of it looks the way it does precisely because people have lived in it and shaped it for centuries.

s1artibartfast 4mo ago
yeah, some it has been shaped by man, but that does not negate or invalidate the fact that they like it the way that it is. My clean dinner table is completely artificial, but that doesnt mean I should be neutral to someone placing a bowl of shit on it.
palata 4mo ago
Also wind turbines kill birds and bats, it is an actual problem to be put in the balance. The balance being: do you build a ton of those turbines, or one nuclear plant?
- Matumio 4mo ago
  They do and it's a problem, but it's a minor issue compared to, say, cars or rat poison. Both kill lots of birds, but somehow when it's wind turbines people suddenly care about the birds. See also: https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/technology-articles/sustainability/renewable-energy/birds-and-wind-turbines/ https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/technology-articles/...
  - cogman10 4mo ago
    People that repeat these lies are very incurious. It's incredible how quickly and easily this lie can be debunked yet it still comes up at the same time wind does. It's almost as bad as the "wind turbines cause cancer" BS. Fortunately people usually have enough common sense to see how ridiculous that one is. But not always.
    - palata 4mo ago
      > Fortunately people usually have enough common sense to see how ridiculous that one is The problem is actually that people don't have enough attention to actually read about it. People are stuck in "I am a smart adult, I don't have to think, whatever I believe is right". Those are actual problems and wind turbines actually deploy mitigations for them. Possible for birds, not for bats. Many endangered bats are killed as a result. Sure, as compared to not giving a shit about the living condition of, say, billions of chickens, it may sound like it doesn't matter. But not everybody wants to live on a lifeless planet surrounded by the worst species ever (I mean humans). > It's almost as bad as the "wind turbines cause cancer" BS. If you genuinely believe it is, then you vastly overestimate your common sense.

Moldoteck 4mo ago

nimby to have solar/wind in alps is even higher vs nimby against nuclear. With nuclear you can at least throw another unit in Aarau