5 ms·

Silverlight 3 will have 3D support with hardware acceleration. This is one area where i see Microsoft taking the lead on Adobe.

MrRage 18y ago
Maybe take a lead in ability, but in an install base? I'm not sure. Even .NET has trouble with having a large enough install base (on Windows machines of course).
- felixmar 18y ago
  I meant in technical ability. Silverlight's install base is difficult to predict, although having a killer feature could help a lot. That said, i prefer open standards based solutions like Mozilla's Canvas 3D project.
raphar 18y ago
While silverlight fights flash and viceversa over 3d support, google has a fast js virtual machine already implemented and delivered. With it you can do 3d directly from js. I dont know why google dont push a bit more with this killer feature. Are they avoiding 'browser war II'?
- prospero 18y ago
  V8 isn't hardware accelerated, and probably won't ever be. That won't matter in every case, but there will always be situations in which V8 is not a valid substitute for Flash or Silverlight.
  - anewaccountname 18y ago
    If V8 gets threading support and auto-vectorization, then if processors-graphics cards ala Intel's Larrabee take off, it may be a non-issue. Developers can just do a 3d engine in pure javascript and get roughly the same order of magnitude of performance as a GPU.
    - prospero 18y ago
      All true, but that's a lot of ifs.
- ph0rque 18y ago
  > google has a fast js virtual machine already implemented and delivered. With it you can do 3d directly from js. I dont know why google dont push a bit more with this killer feature. Are they avoiding 'browser war II'? Maybe they're waiting to implement Chrome in Linux first?
tjmc 18y ago
Macromedia (before the Adobe takeover) had hardware 3D support years ago with their Shockwave plugin, yet its install base never got close to Flash which is installed on the vast majority of browsers. There have been countless other plugins that have tried and failed to get critical mass, but Flash is the only one that's made it. Adobe Reader and Java are the nearest competitors and the install base is much lower. Why? Initially - download size. For several years (while most people were still on dial-up) the Flash plugin was kept under 200K. Macromedia deliberately kept the plugin as small as possible so that it wasn't a burden to install it. They did internal testing where they artificially increased the size of the plugin and there was an immediate drop in download numbers. At some point as the size increased, the numbers would drop dramatically and they'd know that was the limit they had to work to when adding new features. Upgrades and installation was always kept as easy as possible. They then cemented the install base with video playback that didn't act like it was stapled onto the browser. Prior to Flash with video, all the web based video options were clunky and almost completely closed to customization. Until there is an open standard for video playback, supported across all browsers, I think Flash will remain ubiquitous. I can't see Silverlight taking over. It's not cross platform for a start. 3D isn't enough reason for people to install it and, other than Microsoft, no self respecting web site wants to risk alienating users by forcing an install. Disclosure - I used to work for Macromedia. So I'll freely admit some bias!
Mgreen 18y ago
Flash does have hardware acceleration (Direct and GPU)

MrRage 18y ago

Maybe take a lead in ability, but in an install base? I'm not sure. Even .NET has trouble with having a large enough install base (on Windows machines of course).

felixmar 18y ago
I meant in technical ability. Silverlight's install base is difficult to predict, although having a killer feature could help a lot. That said, i prefer open standards based solutions like Mozilla's Canvas 3D project.

raphar 18y ago

While silverlight fights flash and viceversa over 3d support, google has a fast js virtual machine already implemented and delivered. With it you can do 3d directly from js. I dont know why google dont push a bit more with this killer feature. Are they avoiding 'browser war II'?

prospero 18y ago
V8 isn't hardware accelerated, and probably won't ever be. That won't matter in every case, but there will always be situations in which V8 is not a valid substitute for Flash or Silverlight.
- anewaccountname 18y ago
  If V8 gets threading support and auto-vectorization, then if processors-graphics cards ala Intel's Larrabee take off, it may be a non-issue. Developers can just do a 3d engine in pure javascript and get roughly the same order of magnitude of performance as a GPU.
  - prospero 18y ago
    All true, but that's a lot of ifs.
ph0rque 18y ago
> google has a fast js virtual machine already implemented and delivered. With it you can do 3d directly from js. I dont know why google dont push a bit more with this killer feature. Are they avoiding 'browser war II'? Maybe they're waiting to implement Chrome in Linux first?

tjmc 18y ago

Macromedia (before the Adobe takeover) had hardware 3D support years ago with their Shockwave plugin, yet its install base never got close to Flash which is installed on the vast majority of browsers. There have been countless other plugins that have tried and failed to get critical mass, but Flash is the only one that's made it. Adobe Reader and Java are the nearest competitors and the install base is much lower. Why? Initially - download size. For several years (while most people were still on dial-up) the Flash plugin was kept under 200K. Macromedia deliberately kept the plugin as small as possible so that it wasn't a burden to install it. They did internal testing where they artificially increased the size of the plugin and there was an immediate drop in download numbers. At some point as the size increased, the numbers would drop dramatically and they'd know that was the limit they had to work to when adding new features. Upgrades and installation was always kept as easy as possible. They then cemented the install base with video playback that didn't act like it was stapled onto the browser. Prior to Flash with video, all the web based video options were clunky and almost completely closed to customization. Until there is an open standard for video playback, supported across all browsers, I think Flash will remain ubiquitous. I can't see Silverlight taking over. It's not cross platform for a start. 3D isn't enough reason for people to install it and, other than Microsoft, no self respecting web site wants to risk alienating users by forcing an install. Disclosure - I used to work for Macromedia. So I'll freely admit some bias!

Mgreen 18y ago

Flash does have hardware acceleration (Direct and GPU)