5 ms·

US citizen moves to Canada on a CUSMA visa: - 30-50% pay cut - points and lottery based immigration system that penalizes them for each year you age after

US citizen moves to Canada on a CUSMA visa: - 30-50% pay cut - points and lottery based immigration system that penalizes them for each year you age after 30 - frequent unfavorable rule changes - fear of being trapped forever on a temporary visa and eventually sent back to the USA, poorer than their peers who stayed stateside. Canadian citizen moves to us on equivalent CUSMA visa: - huge pay raise - retire back home wealthier than their peers and still enjoy socialized healthcare. Canada's immigration system is just structurally tilted toward brain drain. It's all stick and no carrot.

joe_mamba 3mo ago
>US citizen moves to Canada on a CUSMA visa: - 30-50% pay cut But what about "free healthcare". Don't americans want socialized healthcare over their despised privatized system? > - points and lottery based immigration system that penalizes them for each year you age after 30 Many countries with socialized healthcare do this. They only want young people and don't want older people who are a risk at becoming a burden to the state before they paid a lot into the system. After a certain age or health status, many workers, even locals not just immigrants, start to become a net negative to the welfare state, consuming more resources in care than they contribute back, so you need a constant stream of young healthy workers to keep the ponzi scheme going. US being private healthcare doesn't give a damn since your health conditions are your own problem. >Canada's immigration system is just structurally tilted toward brain drain. It's all stick and no carrot. And yet they have record immigration rates, mostly from india. So it seems there's plenty of desperate people on the planet that don't even need a carrot, they prefer the Canadian stick because the situation back in their home is so much worse than the canadian stick. However, I do think that if you're relying on a stream of desperate people from all over the world to replenish your own brain drain because you manage to push away your most valuable people, then you're doing it wrong and it's not gonna be sustainable, you're just putting band aids on major structural issues to cover the rot, and eventuall y the piper will have to be paid.
- rgblambda 3mo ago
  >Don't americans want socialized healthcare over their despised privatized system? I haven't lived in either country but as someone who lives in a country with socialised healthcare, it mainly benefits the older generations, as health issues begin to crop up nearer retirement. If a Canadian spends most of their working life in the U.S. then returns to Canada to raise their kids or to retire then they're getting the best of both worlds.
- ars 3mo ago
  > But what about "free healthcare". Don't americans want socialized healthcare over their despised privatized system? Not really. The internet bubble might make you think that, but actually ordinary people aren't interested. People with good jobs have health insurance, people without get government subsidized insurance. Either way most people are fine with what they have. And the issues with healthcare in the US will not be solved by the government being the one to pay. Billing is too complex (i.e. costly), and Dr salaries are too high (compare them to other countries). Neither of those issues are solved by the government paying. And don't forget how Americans hear stories from other countries about huge waits for care, and they want none of that. There are zero proposals to make all Dr's employees of the government, on salary, who just take care of whoever shows up. But that might actually work to reduce costs.
  - coldtea 3mo ago
    >People with good jobs have health insurance, people without get government subsidized insurance. Either way most people are fine with what they have. Clearly, all those people who lost everything or even became homeless from some health issue despite paying insurance all their lives must be fictional
    - joe_mamba 3mo ago
      How many people per capita become homeless from healthcare in US vs how many people die/suffer from long waiting times in Canada/socialized health systems?
lbrito 3mo ago
I don't know what a CUSMA visa is - I thought CUSMA was a trade deal?, but it seems very convenient to compare the standard Express Entry points-based immigration track versus (nothing) on the US side. Convenient is an euphemism, reality basically the opposite of what you're saying: Moving to Canada: - Rational points-based immigration system with transparent rules which you can actually look up and prepare for, start your life as a Permanent Resident with all but voting rights compared with a citizen, become a citizen in a few years. Moving to US: - Wait years for an H1B with a yearly lottery with 15% chance - Wait another 10 years for a Green Card, equivalent to a PR card - Wait another ? years for full citizenship
- plaidthunder 3mo ago
  CUSMA goes both ways, it allows Canadian and US Citizens to obtain 3 year temporary work permits for many skilled occupations with low friction, across both countries. It's another contributing factor to the "brain drain" effect. In that it's a worse deal for a US Citizen to move to Canada on a CUSMA visa than for the opposite.

joe_mamba 3mo ago

>US citizen moves to Canada on a CUSMA visa: - 30-50% pay cut But what about "free healthcare". Don't americans want socialized healthcare over their despised privatized system? > - points and lottery based immigration system that penalizes them for each year you age after 30 Many countries with socialized healthcare do this. They only want young people and don't want older people who are a risk at becoming a burden to the state before they paid a lot into the system. After a certain age or health status, many workers, even locals not just immigrants, start to become a net negative to the welfare state, consuming more resources in care than they contribute back, so you need a constant stream of young healthy workers to keep the ponzi scheme going. US being private healthcare doesn't give a damn since your health conditions are your own problem. >Canada's immigration system is just structurally tilted toward brain drain. It's all stick and no carrot. And yet they have record immigration rates, mostly from india. So it seems there's plenty of desperate people on the planet that don't even need a carrot, they prefer the Canadian stick because the situation back in their home is so much worse than the canadian stick. However, I do think that if you're relying on a stream of desperate people from all over the world to replenish your own brain drain because you manage to push away your most valuable people, then you're doing it wrong and it's not gonna be sustainable, you're just putting band aids on major structural issues to cover the rot, and eventuall y the piper will have to be paid.

rgblambda 3mo ago
>Don't americans want socialized healthcare over their despised privatized system? I haven't lived in either country but as someone who lives in a country with socialised healthcare, it mainly benefits the older generations, as health issues begin to crop up nearer retirement. If a Canadian spends most of their working life in the U.S. then returns to Canada to raise their kids or to retire then they're getting the best of both worlds.
ars 3mo ago
> But what about "free healthcare". Don't americans want socialized healthcare over their despised privatized system? Not really. The internet bubble might make you think that, but actually ordinary people aren't interested. People with good jobs have health insurance, people without get government subsidized insurance. Either way most people are fine with what they have. And the issues with healthcare in the US will not be solved by the government being the one to pay. Billing is too complex (i.e. costly), and Dr salaries are too high (compare them to other countries). Neither of those issues are solved by the government paying. And don't forget how Americans hear stories from other countries about huge waits for care, and they want none of that. There are zero proposals to make all Dr's employees of the government, on salary, who just take care of whoever shows up. But that might actually work to reduce costs.
- coldtea 3mo ago
  >People with good jobs have health insurance, people without get government subsidized insurance. Either way most people are fine with what they have. Clearly, all those people who lost everything or even became homeless from some health issue despite paying insurance all their lives must be fictional
  - joe_mamba 3mo ago
    How many people per capita become homeless from healthcare in US vs how many people die/suffer from long waiting times in Canada/socialized health systems?

lbrito 3mo ago

I don't know what a CUSMA visa is - I thought CUSMA was a trade deal?, but it seems very convenient to compare the standard Express Entry points-based immigration track versus (nothing) on the US side. Convenient is an euphemism, reality basically the opposite of what you're saying: Moving to Canada: - Rational points-based immigration system with transparent rules which you can actually look up and prepare for, start your life as a Permanent Resident with all but voting rights compared with a citizen, become a citizen in a few years. Moving to US: - Wait years for an H1B with a yearly lottery with 15% chance - Wait another 10 years for a Green Card, equivalent to a PR card - Wait another ? years for full citizenship

plaidthunder 3mo ago
CUSMA goes both ways, it allows Canadian and US Citizens to obtain 3 year temporary work permits for many skilled occupations with low friction, across both countries. It's another contributing factor to the "brain drain" effect. In that it's a worse deal for a US Citizen to move to Canada on a CUSMA visa than for the opposite.