4 ms·

> The Chinese don't make these kinds of idiotic mistakes, which is how they have amassed the power, wealth, and influence that they have. I generally agree wit

> The Chinese don't make these kinds of idiotic mistakes, which is how they have amassed the power, wealth, and influence that they have. I generally agree with most of what you said but not this. China's chief advantage is having a billion people. On average, they aren't that wealthy or powerful. And their leadership makes plenty of idiotic mistakes - look at their real estate market.

CPLX 4mo ago
That's not the chief advantage, insofar as there is a difference between China, India, and Indonesia, which there is. Their chief advantage has been a coherent, long-running national industrial policy and trade policy that encourages industry while keeping the financial sector from taking over the economy and ripping everybody off. We used to do that too from the late 1930's to the late 1970's, which is why we were the dominant industrial power in the world at that time as well.
- i_idiot 4mo ago
  I wouldn't consider India. It's been plagued by protectionism and tariffs and won't achieve anything close to China any time soon. The only industry of value for its people which is software services is now crumbling with AI created in US and China. Edit: probably your point too and I misread
- theevilsharpie 4mo ago
  > We used to do that too from the late 1930's to the late 1970's, which is why we were the dominant industrial power in the world at that time as well. I think there's another world event that happened in that time span that might better explain America's world-wide industrial dominance.
  - CPLX 4mo ago
    You're confusing cause and effect.
    - ceejayoz 4mo ago
      No, they're not. Europe was devastated and bankrupt. Asia was devastated and bankrupt. The US mainland was untouched. It had a massive leg up against the competition.
      - CPLX 4mo ago
        > explain America's world-wide industrial dominance. > Europe was devastated and bankrupt. Asia was devastated and bankrupt. Well yeah. Because America's world wide industrial dominance soundly beat the shit out of everyone, due to deployment of a highly successful industrial policy. Imagine if we needed to rapidly step up industrial output tomorrow to fight another global war and China was on the other side. How do you think it would go?
        ceejayoz 4mo ago
        > Because America's world wide industrial dominance soundly beat the shit out of everyone, due to deployment of a highly successful industrial policy. That industrial dominance came largely during the war, and was made possible by the fact that they weren't being bombed while it scaled up. There's a huge element of geopolitical luck involved in the rise of the US. > Imagine if we needed to rapidly step up industrial output tomorrow to fight another global war and China was on the other side. How do you think it would go? Horribly! I think they're much more prepared for such a thing.
        CPLX 4mo ago
        Well then we agree, that their industrial policy is working a little better than ours. Which was the original point. They don't let western businesses overwhelm their domestic industry at all. For us to let them do it to us would be unilateral disarmament and suicide.
        ceejayoz 4mo ago
        > Well then we agree, that their industrial policy is working a little better than ours. Yes! Their car industry is competing; ours is hoping to avoid it. You now understand my point and objection to preserving domestic capacity via selling worse cars more expensively to its own citizens.

CPLX 4mo ago

That's not the chief advantage, insofar as there is a difference between China, India, and Indonesia, which there is. Their chief advantage has been a coherent, long-running national industrial policy and trade policy that encourages industry while keeping the financial sector from taking over the economy and ripping everybody off. We used to do that too from the late 1930's to the late 1970's, which is why we were the dominant industrial power in the world at that time as well.

i_idiot 4mo ago
I wouldn't consider India. It's been plagued by protectionism and tariffs and won't achieve anything close to China any time soon. The only industry of value for its people which is software services is now crumbling with AI created in US and China. Edit: probably your point too and I misread
theevilsharpie 4mo ago
> We used to do that too from the late 1930's to the late 1970's, which is why we were the dominant industrial power in the world at that time as well. I think there's another world event that happened in that time span that might better explain America's world-wide industrial dominance.
- CPLX 4mo ago
  You're confusing cause and effect.
  - ceejayoz 4mo ago
    No, they're not. Europe was devastated and bankrupt. Asia was devastated and bankrupt. The US mainland was untouched. It had a massive leg up against the competition.
    - CPLX 4mo ago
      > explain America's world-wide industrial dominance. > Europe was devastated and bankrupt. Asia was devastated and bankrupt. Well yeah. Because America's world wide industrial dominance soundly beat the shit out of everyone, due to deployment of a highly successful industrial policy. Imagine if we needed to rapidly step up industrial output tomorrow to fight another global war and China was on the other side. How do you think it would go?
      - ceejayoz 4mo ago
        > Because America's world wide industrial dominance soundly beat the shit out of everyone, due to deployment of a highly successful industrial policy. That industrial dominance came largely during the war, and was made possible by the fact that they weren't being bombed while it scaled up. There's a huge element of geopolitical luck involved in the rise of the US. > Imagine if we needed to rapidly step up industrial output tomorrow to fight another global war and China was on the other side. How do you think it would go? Horribly! I think they're much more prepared for such a thing.
        CPLX 4mo ago
        Well then we agree, that their industrial policy is working a little better than ours. Which was the original point. They don't let western businesses overwhelm their domestic industry at all. For us to let them do it to us would be unilateral disarmament and suicide.
        ceejayoz 4mo ago
        > Well then we agree, that their industrial policy is working a little better than ours. Yes! Their car industry is competing; ours is hoping to avoid it. You now understand my point and objection to preserving domestic capacity via selling worse cars more expensively to its own citizens.