5 ms·

The solution is not to try to shame or force Volkswagen to support GrapheneOS, the solution is to (legally) force them to allow the car to run a custom CarOS, f

The solution is not to try to shame or force Volkswagen to support GrapheneOS, the solution is to (legally) force them to allow the car to run a custom CarOS, for which the community can write their own app

ddalex 4mo ago
Why should they ?! Do you also want to force them to design their cars so the engine is easily replaceable by a Custom Engine OS so that the community can build their own engines ?!?
- DANmode 4mo ago
  Next thing you know these dirtbags are going to want to choose what wheels and tires to put on these things. The nerve! (Yes, repairability and standardization are encouraged where feasible.)
  - ddalex 4mo ago
    I would guess there are a couple of orders of magnitude difference between the complexity of interfaces comparing the head unit with wheels and tires. Like, the head unit is in control of all that happens on the slow bus of the car, and needs to pass independent safety certifications for a complex system.
    - DANmode 4mo ago
      I was replying to the bit on replacing the engine.
- callc 4mo ago
  Because laws are (mostly) a reflection of what society wants. People are growingly concerned with both the car manu and Apple/Google control over their car and related extra software goodies. Laws are really needed when businesses don’t play nicely. I don’t know the legal specifics, but I’m sure glad I don’t need to buy $1000’s of specialty tools to maintain my vehicle, and sure glad that replacement parts are readily available (and will be for decades). Just image how much worse society would be if car manus did the same thing as Apple and had ID-paired parts. Sorry! Your AC doesn’t work anymore, please install a genuine Honda oil filter at your nearest Authorized Honda Shop, available for a minimum of $500.
  - ddalex 4mo ago
    > People are growingly concerned with both the car manu and Apple/Google control over their car and related extra software goodies. 10 out of random 10 drivers out there don't care about the software running in the car. > Laws are really needed when businesses don’t play nicely. I don’t know the legal specifics, but I’m sure glad I don’t need to buy $1000’s of specialty tools to maintain my vehicle, and sure glad that replacement parts are readily available (and will be for decades). You drive a self-maintained car. Nothing wrong with that, but I would guess 95 out of 100 drivers on the road don't care about the car at all - they just want reliable transportation from A to B and perhaps some confort. > Just image how much worse society would be if car manus did the same thing as Apple and had ID-paired parts. Sorry! Your AC doesn’t work anymore, please install a genuine Honda oil filter at your nearest Authorized Honda Shop, available for a minimum of $500. I don't have to imagine that al all, all premium car manufactures digitally id their components and will not accept 3rd party replacements.
    - childofhedgehog 4mo ago
      Honda isn’t a premium car manufacturer, but also can you please show a source for “all premium car manufactures digitally id their components and will not accept 3rd party replacements.” I know plenty of mechanics and while OEM is usually the way to go there are many aftermarket parts that get installed regularly.
Arainach 4mo ago
That's a non-starter in most countries. Since the car software is tied into a number of important safety features and regulated controls, custom operating systems will never be supported. There are already massive problems with people miswiring head units to play videos while driving and updating their ECU to spew pollution into the air. You're not going to convince any significant number of people that it's a good idea to allow arbitrary code to run and control most of the other systems too.
- dada216 4mo ago
  Those two set of systems are separate and very distinct.
  - Arainach 4mo ago
    They're not. Use any car's heads up display and you can configure an enormous number of things. Even if there was somehow a pure separation, things such as "playing video while the car is moving" are regulated in many jurisdictions and would land firmly in the "UI" layer.
    - dylan604 4mo ago
      You can detect the car is in motion or not without talking to the engine computer. Just like my phone can tell I'm in motion without connecting to the car at all. You're trying to justify a bad design with bad reasoning
      - mohamedkoubaa 4mo ago
        People watch videos on their phone while drive and will continue to do so no matter what infotainment OSes allow or don't allow.
        Arainach 4mo ago
        "Some people break the law" is not a reason to not have laws. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
bdamm 4mo ago
Could it be a right-to-repair issue? That seems to be the only legal wrench available for forcing automakers to open up access to anything.
- mohamedkoubaa 4mo ago
  It absolutely is a right to repair issue
bflesch 4mo ago
That's unacceptable, because intelligence needs a way to steer your car into oncoming traffic if required to do so due to confidential national security reasons.

ddalex 4mo ago

Why should they ?! Do you also want to force them to design their cars so the engine is easily replaceable by a Custom Engine OS so that the community can build their own engines ?!?

DANmode 4mo ago
Next thing you know these dirtbags are going to want to choose what wheels and tires to put on these things. The nerve! (Yes, repairability and standardization are encouraged where feasible.)
- ddalex 4mo ago
  I would guess there are a couple of orders of magnitude difference between the complexity of interfaces comparing the head unit with wheels and tires. Like, the head unit is in control of all that happens on the slow bus of the car, and needs to pass independent safety certifications for a complex system.
  - DANmode 4mo ago
    I was replying to the bit on replacing the engine.
callc 4mo ago
Because laws are (mostly) a reflection of what society wants. People are growingly concerned with both the car manu and Apple/Google control over their car and related extra software goodies. Laws are really needed when businesses don’t play nicely. I don’t know the legal specifics, but I’m sure glad I don’t need to buy $1000’s of specialty tools to maintain my vehicle, and sure glad that replacement parts are readily available (and will be for decades). Just image how much worse society would be if car manus did the same thing as Apple and had ID-paired parts. Sorry! Your AC doesn’t work anymore, please install a genuine Honda oil filter at your nearest Authorized Honda Shop, available for a minimum of $500.
- ddalex 4mo ago
  > People are growingly concerned with both the car manu and Apple/Google control over their car and related extra software goodies. 10 out of random 10 drivers out there don't care about the software running in the car. > Laws are really needed when businesses don’t play nicely. I don’t know the legal specifics, but I’m sure glad I don’t need to buy $1000’s of specialty tools to maintain my vehicle, and sure glad that replacement parts are readily available (and will be for decades). You drive a self-maintained car. Nothing wrong with that, but I would guess 95 out of 100 drivers on the road don't care about the car at all - they just want reliable transportation from A to B and perhaps some confort. > Just image how much worse society would be if car manus did the same thing as Apple and had ID-paired parts. Sorry! Your AC doesn’t work anymore, please install a genuine Honda oil filter at your nearest Authorized Honda Shop, available for a minimum of $500. I don't have to imagine that al all, all premium car manufactures digitally id their components and will not accept 3rd party replacements.
  - childofhedgehog 4mo ago
    Honda isn’t a premium car manufacturer, but also can you please show a source for “all premium car manufactures digitally id their components and will not accept 3rd party replacements.” I know plenty of mechanics and while OEM is usually the way to go there are many aftermarket parts that get installed regularly.

Arainach 4mo ago

That's a non-starter in most countries. Since the car software is tied into a number of important safety features and regulated controls, custom operating systems will never be supported. There are already massive problems with people miswiring head units to play videos while driving and updating their ECU to spew pollution into the air. You're not going to convince any significant number of people that it's a good idea to allow arbitrary code to run and control most of the other systems too.

dada216 4mo ago
Those two set of systems are separate and very distinct.
- Arainach 4mo ago
  They're not. Use any car's heads up display and you can configure an enormous number of things. Even if there was somehow a pure separation, things such as "playing video while the car is moving" are regulated in many jurisdictions and would land firmly in the "UI" layer.
  - dylan604 4mo ago
    You can detect the car is in motion or not without talking to the engine computer. Just like my phone can tell I'm in motion without connecting to the car at all. You're trying to justify a bad design with bad reasoning
    - mohamedkoubaa 4mo ago
      People watch videos on their phone while drive and will continue to do so no matter what infotainment OSes allow or don't allow.
      - Arainach 4mo ago
        "Some people break the law" is not a reason to not have laws. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

bdamm 4mo ago

Could it be a right-to-repair issue? That seems to be the only legal wrench available for forcing automakers to open up access to anything.

mohamedkoubaa 4mo ago
It absolutely is a right to repair issue

bflesch 4mo ago

That's unacceptable, because intelligence needs a way to steer your car into oncoming traffic if required to do so due to confidential national security reasons.