6 ms·

I predict that in the future, when you cancel an LLM subscription, they will threaten that unless you pay, to fully delete your anonymized chats, they will be p

I predict that in the future, when you cancel an LLM subscription, they will threaten that unless you pay, to fully delete your anonymized chats, they will be public as paid training data. You know ...that is how we managed to offer you such a cheap subscription...

junior44660 4mo ago
I always pose fundamentalist questions and hypotheticals to the LLM to poison such training data.
- cwmoore 4mo ago
  Now you can place a bet on how well that approach will work out in ten years.
- RobRivera 4mo ago
  I have loads of requests to 'Play Despacito' across agents all over the blogosphere
  - bikson 4mo ago
    Calm down Satan.
- dakolli 4mo ago
  Also, press thumbs down when a response is good and thumbs up when a response is bad. Don't do free labor for them.
- yifanl 4mo ago
  I just ask it to spellcheck the Webster dictionary about 50 times an hour.
anal_reactor 4mo ago
I was doing a Udemy course about AI and there was a section where I had to do some processing on randomly scraped tweets and the random tweet that the machine chose to display as an example of something was from a gay porn star and about fisting.
- jpfromlondon 4mo ago
  it obviously knew your hn username
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
dspillett 4mo ago
> they will be public as paid training data. Your data is already training data. If they promise to delete everything from their models or those elsewhere that they made the data available to, even if you pay, I'd call them liars.
Aurornis 4mo ago
I wish there was some easy way to bet against this happening. I would put a lot of money on the side of this never happening for a multitude of reasons, but I bet I could collect a lot of money from cynics and doomers who think this stuff will happen.
- neonstatic 4mo ago
  There is a way, it's called Polymarket.
- TeMPOraL 4mo ago
  You wouldn't win because those cynics don't really believe their own nonsense to the extent of risking money over it. But if there was an option to bet, one we could point them to and say, "if you really believe it then here's your chance at free money", maybe some of them would reconsider their belief.
- dylan604 4mo ago
  As a devil's advocate, why do you trust the AI companies to behave as you suggest and not the other way? You say you have multitude of reasons, but list none. We have already seen by example that the AI companies do not care about laws and will circumvent societal norms as long as they get a leg up, so it's not a stretch to think they'd do things like this too.
  - pastor_williams 4mo ago
    It isn't just out of the kindness of their hearts that they don't do this. There are laws and regulations. There is also legal risk and reputation. I have to go through a legal and privacy process at my big corp job whenever I want to record a new timestamp and I need to ensure that the data is used appropriately and that it is wiped later. I've only seen these compliance requirements become more onerous over the past ten years and I expect that to continue.
    - latentsea 4mo ago
      > There are laws and regulations Those worked very for Uber.
locknitpicker 4mo ago
> (...) your anonymized chats, they will be public as paid training data. If they are PII then under GDPR they are obligated to delete the data. If not then they will be liable to pay fines up to $20 million or 4% of their total global turnover.
- msdz 4mo ago
  You forgot about the best part, in terms of the “GDPR threat” effectiveness: Fines can be up to €20 million or 4% of global revenues…, _whichever is greater._
  - brewdad 4mo ago
    “Up to” is doing a lot of work here. I’d imagine few companies ever pay anything close to the maximum possible fine. Just like my state law says simple littering can be punished by up to a $6500 fine. Most people get a warning or maybe pay a fine of under $100.
- autoexec 4mo ago
  The actual fines under GDPR aren't a huge deal. There are companies who get fined over and over and over and over again year after year after year. It's not running them out of business, it's just cost of business.
zamadatix 4mo ago
Unless your subscription type already comes with a guarantee the data will not be kept or used in training I'd assume the conversations will eventually be used in training regardless how much you paid previously or whether or not you decide to discontinue one day.
RajT88 4mo ago
I don't think flat out blackmail will come from LLM companies. It will come from data brokerage companies headquartered overseas. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't happened already, but I guess there hasn't been enough unscrupulous LLM companies selling those "anonymous" chat logs yet.
dorgo 4mo ago
Isn't this how Google operates? I have their AI subscription (about $20 per month). If you want to have a chat history (retain chats after reload) or connect the LLM to Google services (Drive, Emails) you have to activate an option which also allows training. If you don't want to allow training then the subscription is basically useless.
sharts 4mo ago
Or they’ll just make it public entirely if you don’t maintain a subscription.

junior44660 4mo ago

I always pose fundamentalist questions and hypotheticals to the LLM to poison such training data.

cwmoore 4mo ago
Now you can place a bet on how well that approach will work out in ten years.
RobRivera 4mo ago
I have loads of requests to 'Play Despacito' across agents all over the blogosphere
- bikson 4mo ago
  Calm down Satan.
dakolli 4mo ago
Also, press thumbs down when a response is good and thumbs up when a response is bad. Don't do free labor for them.
yifanl 4mo ago
I just ask it to spellcheck the Webster dictionary about 50 times an hour.

anal_reactor 4mo ago

I was doing a Udemy course about AI and there was a section where I had to do some processing on randomly scraped tweets and the random tweet that the machine chose to display as an example of something was from a gay porn star and about fisting.

jpfromlondon 4mo ago
it obviously knew your hn username
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]

dspillett 4mo ago

> they will be public as paid training data. Your data is already training data. If they promise to delete everything from their models or those elsewhere that they made the data available to, even if you pay, I'd call them liars.

Aurornis 4mo ago

I wish there was some easy way to bet against this happening. I would put a lot of money on the side of this never happening for a multitude of reasons, but I bet I could collect a lot of money from cynics and doomers who think this stuff will happen.

neonstatic 4mo ago
There is a way, it's called Polymarket.
TeMPOraL 4mo ago
You wouldn't win because those cynics don't really believe their own nonsense to the extent of risking money over it. But if there was an option to bet, one we could point them to and say, "if you really believe it then here's your chance at free money", maybe some of them would reconsider their belief.
dylan604 4mo ago
As a devil's advocate, why do you trust the AI companies to behave as you suggest and not the other way? You say you have multitude of reasons, but list none. We have already seen by example that the AI companies do not care about laws and will circumvent societal norms as long as they get a leg up, so it's not a stretch to think they'd do things like this too.
- pastor_williams 4mo ago
  It isn't just out of the kindness of their hearts that they don't do this. There are laws and regulations. There is also legal risk and reputation. I have to go through a legal and privacy process at my big corp job whenever I want to record a new timestamp and I need to ensure that the data is used appropriately and that it is wiped later. I've only seen these compliance requirements become more onerous over the past ten years and I expect that to continue.
  - latentsea 4mo ago
    > There are laws and regulations Those worked very for Uber.

locknitpicker 4mo ago

> (...) your anonymized chats, they will be public as paid training data. If they are PII then under GDPR they are obligated to delete the data. If not then they will be liable to pay fines up to $20 million or 4% of their total global turnover.

msdz 4mo ago
You forgot about the best part, in terms of the “GDPR threat” effectiveness: Fines can be up to €20 million or 4% of global revenues…, _whichever is greater._
- brewdad 4mo ago
  “Up to” is doing a lot of work here. I’d imagine few companies ever pay anything close to the maximum possible fine. Just like my state law says simple littering can be punished by up to a $6500 fine. Most people get a warning or maybe pay a fine of under $100.
autoexec 4mo ago
The actual fines under GDPR aren't a huge deal. There are companies who get fined over and over and over and over again year after year after year. It's not running them out of business, it's just cost of business.

zamadatix 4mo ago

Unless your subscription type already comes with a guarantee the data will not be kept or used in training I'd assume the conversations will eventually be used in training regardless how much you paid previously or whether or not you decide to discontinue one day.

RajT88 4mo ago

I don't think flat out blackmail will come from LLM companies. It will come from data brokerage companies headquartered overseas. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't happened already, but I guess there hasn't been enough unscrupulous LLM companies selling those "anonymous" chat logs yet.

dorgo 4mo ago

Isn't this how Google operates? I have their AI subscription (about $20 per month). If you want to have a chat history (retain chats after reload) or connect the LLM to Google services (Drive, Emails) you have to activate an option which also allows training. If you don't want to allow training then the subscription is basically useless.

sharts 4mo ago

Or they’ll just make it public entirely if you don’t maintain a subscription.