4 ms·

Fascists don't support free speech. Please, learn what that word means[0] and then use it responsibly. We're already seeing the effects of misusing and overusin

Fascists don't support free speech. Please, learn what that word means[0] and then use it responsibly. We're already seeing the effects of misusing and overusing several other important words for political/societal discourse, and this is one of them. It's entirely unhelpful and lowers the quality of conversation here. [0] The Doctrine of Fascism is available, for free, in several places. Start there.

bakies 4mo ago
Elon fits the definition in Britannica pretty neatly
- brigandish 4mo ago
  [flagged]
  - bakies 4mo ago
    - Opposition to Marxism and socialism I'd agree. - Opposition to parliamentary democracy Yes. buying elections - Opposition to political and cultural liberalism Yes, banned speech on twitter that trans people use. - Totalitarian ambitions Yes, buying elections - Corporatism trillionare - Imperialism Literally wants to colonize a planet - Military values Building a military satelite constellation - Volksgemeinschaft White supremacist - Mass mobilization election lottery, trump rallys - The leadership principle idk what this is - The “new man” or this - Glorification of youth i guess not - Education as character building what - Decadence and spirituality No. - Violence No. - Extreme nationalism xenophobe - Scapegoating those darn regulations are always in the way - Populism Possibly? i'm sure your reply will be pedantic
    - brigandish 4mo ago
      > i'm sure your reply will be pedantic Have you heard of the term "bad faith argument"? That's a good example. > - Opposition to political and cultural liberalism > Yes, banned speech on twitter that trans people use. I had to check this one. I found two stories. [1] shows that people were warned about speech (e.g. using the term cisgender) but were still able to post without problems. [2] showed that X's rules were updated to prevent harassment in the form of deadnaming or misgendering. I doubt that either supports your assertion to be true. As to the rest of your answers, you seem to have given away that you didn't read the Britannica article at all: > - Education as character building > what You should know, right? You read the article and made the accusation. You've done this several times: > - The leadership principle > idk what this is > - The “new man” > or this There's not really a need for me to be pedantic in the face of such slipshod work, but then again, perhaps you think that not being slipshod is being pedantic. Which would also be wrong, but telling. Try learning about what fascism is, that would be my suggestion. With a book, while putting your phone away. [1] https://www.them.us/story/elon-musk-x-ban-users-cisgender-slur https://www.them.us/story/elon-musk-x-ban-users-cisgender-sl... [2] https://www.advocate.com/news/x-bans-deadnaming-misgendering https://www.advocate.com/news/x-bans-deadnaming-misgendering
      - bakies 4mo ago
        pretty much exactly what i expected, you ignored all the YESs and called me dumb and made a ton of assumptions. You dont have to fit a definition 100% you're going to hang on to all the tiny little details and say wholey that he's not a fascists. I think he hit's the major point of the definition. Pedantic bootlicker. The reason I didn't pick up a book at your request is because I'm not wasting my time with you. And, no I didn't read the article, you did and linked it. I only read the definition.
        brigandish 4mo ago
        > Pedantic bootlicker Please, try harder to raise the level of debate.
        bakies 4mo ago
        You too
anon7725 4mo ago
Fascists do claim to support free speech while wielding the apparatus of state to ensure that any speech that they disagree with is suppressed, eg on college campuses.
- brigandish 4mo ago
  That's not a rebuttal. Claiming to support is not support. Is Musk wielding the apparatus of state to ensure that any speech that he disagrees with is suppressed, e.g. on college campuses?
  - lgl 4mo ago
    > Is Musk wielding the apparatus of state to ensure that any speech that he disagrees with is suppressed He does not need to do that, he has his army of people like you that go around on all socials and wherever you can to post praise, defend him and attack any critics as he was some sort of uber genius savior of mankind. The Musk cult is real.
    - xp84 4mo ago
      So... are you arguing that Musk is an opponent of 'free speech' because... a bunch of private citizens argue with you when you speak critically of Musk? The whole thread (and to be fair, Musk himself most of the time) has lost the plot, since the phrase "freedom of speech" is about the government not restraining or punishing speech. Honestly, what Twitter allowed or not before or after Musk is entirely irrelevant to the concept of free speech. Twitter/X is still just some guy's website.
      - anon7725 4mo ago
        Musk explicitly centered his DOGE effort on rooting out “woke” programs. This included pulling funding from independent research under the auspices of various government departments. The Trump administration spent considerable effort strong arming colleges on account of speech that they did not like. Even if you subscribe to FIRE’s “Chicago Statement”, you should find the government interfering with colleges like this a break-glass scenario. “Individual Rights in Education” surely include the right to hold beliefs and teach in a way that the current administration is uncomfortable with. So yes, these are fascist activities wholly consistent with the other fascist activities that MAGA movement is engaged in.
andruby 4mo ago
Does Elon _really_ support free speech? * He suspended multiple journalists from Twitter/X in December 2022 after they had reported on or criticized him [0] * He has been accused of retaliating against critics and employees through threats, lawsuits, or firings, rather than tolerating dissent. [1] * He selective enforcing Twitter/X platform rules. Here's 10 examples: [2] He tolerates speech he likes and often punishing speech he dislikes. That's not being a "free speech" absolutist. [0] https://truthout.org/articles/free-speech-watchdogs-condemn-elon-musk-for-suspending-journalists-from-twitter/ https://truthout.org/articles/free-speech-watchdogs-condemn-... [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/free-speech-absolutist-elon-musk-censors-employees-critics-2022-3?IR=T&r=US https://www.businessinsider.com/free-speech-absolutist-elon-... [2] https://gizmodo.com/10-times-elon-musk-censored-twitter-users-1850570720 https://gizmodo.com/10-times-elon-musk-censored-twitter-user...
- brigandish 4mo ago
  > That's not being a "free speech" absolutist. One doesn't need to be a free speech absolutist to not be a fascist, far from it; and the exceptions prove the rule - those examples are the definition of exceptional. "10 times…" I can remember people getting banned en masse for changing their profile pic to an NPC character. The difference is night and day.
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]

bakies 4mo ago

Elon fits the definition in Britannica pretty neatly

brigandish 4mo ago
[flagged]
- bakies 4mo ago
  - Opposition to Marxism and socialism I'd agree. - Opposition to parliamentary democracy Yes. buying elections - Opposition to political and cultural liberalism Yes, banned speech on twitter that trans people use. - Totalitarian ambitions Yes, buying elections - Corporatism trillionare - Imperialism Literally wants to colonize a planet - Military values Building a military satelite constellation - Volksgemeinschaft White supremacist - Mass mobilization election lottery, trump rallys - The leadership principle idk what this is - The “new man” or this - Glorification of youth i guess not - Education as character building what - Decadence and spirituality No. - Violence No. - Extreme nationalism xenophobe - Scapegoating those darn regulations are always in the way - Populism Possibly? i'm sure your reply will be pedantic
  - brigandish 4mo ago
    > i'm sure your reply will be pedantic Have you heard of the term "bad faith argument"? That's a good example. > - Opposition to political and cultural liberalism > Yes, banned speech on twitter that trans people use. I had to check this one. I found two stories. [1] shows that people were warned about speech (e.g. using the term cisgender) but were still able to post without problems. [2] showed that X's rules were updated to prevent harassment in the form of deadnaming or misgendering. I doubt that either supports your assertion to be true. As to the rest of your answers, you seem to have given away that you didn't read the Britannica article at all: > - Education as character building > what You should know, right? You read the article and made the accusation. You've done this several times: > - The leadership principle > idk what this is > - The “new man” > or this There's not really a need for me to be pedantic in the face of such slipshod work, but then again, perhaps you think that not being slipshod is being pedantic. Which would also be wrong, but telling. Try learning about what fascism is, that would be my suggestion. With a book, while putting your phone away. [1] https://www.them.us/story/elon-musk-x-ban-users-cisgender-slur https://www.them.us/story/elon-musk-x-ban-users-cisgender-sl... [2] https://www.advocate.com/news/x-bans-deadnaming-misgendering https://www.advocate.com/news/x-bans-deadnaming-misgendering
    - bakies 4mo ago
      pretty much exactly what i expected, you ignored all the YESs and called me dumb and made a ton of assumptions. You dont have to fit a definition 100% you're going to hang on to all the tiny little details and say wholey that he's not a fascists. I think he hit's the major point of the definition. Pedantic bootlicker. The reason I didn't pick up a book at your request is because I'm not wasting my time with you. And, no I didn't read the article, you did and linked it. I only read the definition.
      - brigandish 4mo ago
        > Pedantic bootlicker Please, try harder to raise the level of debate.
        bakies 4mo ago
        You too

anon7725 4mo ago

Fascists do claim to support free speech while wielding the apparatus of state to ensure that any speech that they disagree with is suppressed, eg on college campuses.

brigandish 4mo ago
That's not a rebuttal. Claiming to support is not support. Is Musk wielding the apparatus of state to ensure that any speech that he disagrees with is suppressed, e.g. on college campuses?
- lgl 4mo ago
  > Is Musk wielding the apparatus of state to ensure that any speech that he disagrees with is suppressed He does not need to do that, he has his army of people like you that go around on all socials and wherever you can to post praise, defend him and attack any critics as he was some sort of uber genius savior of mankind. The Musk cult is real.
  - xp84 4mo ago
    So... are you arguing that Musk is an opponent of 'free speech' because... a bunch of private citizens argue with you when you speak critically of Musk? The whole thread (and to be fair, Musk himself most of the time) has lost the plot, since the phrase "freedom of speech" is about the government not restraining or punishing speech. Honestly, what Twitter allowed or not before or after Musk is entirely irrelevant to the concept of free speech. Twitter/X is still just some guy's website.
    - anon7725 4mo ago
      Musk explicitly centered his DOGE effort on rooting out “woke” programs. This included pulling funding from independent research under the auspices of various government departments. The Trump administration spent considerable effort strong arming colleges on account of speech that they did not like. Even if you subscribe to FIRE’s “Chicago Statement”, you should find the government interfering with colleges like this a break-glass scenario. “Individual Rights in Education” surely include the right to hold beliefs and teach in a way that the current administration is uncomfortable with. So yes, these are fascist activities wholly consistent with the other fascist activities that MAGA movement is engaged in.

andruby 4mo ago

Does Elon _really_ support free speech? * He suspended multiple journalists from Twitter/X in December 2022 after they had reported on or criticized him [0] * He has been accused of retaliating against critics and employees through threats, lawsuits, or firings, rather than tolerating dissent. [1] * He selective enforcing Twitter/X platform rules. Here's 10 examples: [2] He tolerates speech he likes and often punishing speech he dislikes. That's not being a "free speech" absolutist. [0] https://truthout.org/articles/free-speech-watchdogs-condemn-elon-musk-for-suspending-journalists-from-twitter/ https://truthout.org/articles/free-speech-watchdogs-condemn-... [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/free-speech-absolutist-elon-musk-censors-employees-critics-2022-3?IR=T&r=US https://www.businessinsider.com/free-speech-absolutist-elon-... [2] https://gizmodo.com/10-times-elon-musk-censored-twitter-users-1850570720 https://gizmodo.com/10-times-elon-musk-censored-twitter-user...

brigandish 4mo ago
> That's not being a "free speech" absolutist. One doesn't need to be a free speech absolutist to not be a fascist, far from it; and the exceptions prove the rule - those examples are the definition of exceptional. "10 times…" I can remember people getting banned en masse for changing their profile pic to an NPC character. The difference is night and day.

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]