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I'm founder and CEO of Shopify and I was trained via apprenticeship. Germany has the brilliant dual education system where apprenticeships have never ceased to

by xal 14y ago

I'm founder and CEO of Shopify and I was trained via apprenticeship. Germany has the brilliant dual education system where apprenticeships have never ceased to exist and It's the true driver behind Germany's incredible performance recently. After 10th grade I left high shool and joined a company ( Siemens ) "full time" as a trainee. This means that 4 days of the week you work and 1 day you go to vocational school where you learn about CS fundamentals like compilers and algorithms. The program takes 3 years ( just like the rest of high school ). It's true, you make almost no money, the work is hard, and you are at the bottom of the food chain but if you get a good placement you will never learn faster in your live. Trying to finish programming projects while also keeping everyone coordinated and cleaning the kitchens also does a great job of stuffing out the entitlement that so many people join the workforce with. If you have any doubt about the merit of this style of education simply look at Germany. It's vastly superior and I'm raking my brain on how to reproduce this system in North America successfully.

mbesto 14y ago
Culturally speaking, America does not necessarily incentivize merit as much as Germany (and Europe) for that matter. We are a nation of marketers and salespeople, which means: (1) personal networks are key and (2) ability to sell is key. Our cultural is built on the ability to control hyperbole and attention fulfillment (bureaucracy) as opposed to hard work (meritocracy). The skills you learn in personal networks (mostly social) in American universities are much more valuable than the ones attained from apprenticeships. In the HN/SV bubble view of the world, this is may not seem true, but largely outside of that bubble it is. Therefore, what you are looking to do is make a massive cultural shift, not just fix a system. The best way you can fix our system is to continue to make yours (Germany) better. Competition breeds motivation to do better. note - I respect that some of my comments are very much generalized. And while I'm from the US, I do live in the UK and have lived in Germany.
redwood 14y ago
There is the question of the competency of a narrowly-educated public deciding critical matters in a democracy... The American liberal arts education tradition has this focus at its core, and the poster above alludes to it: the purpose of the education was not only to get a job, but rather to make full, well-rounded civic-minded citizens. On the one hand, the fact that German democracy seems to function so effectively, perhaps challenges this view. On the other hand, perhaps America needs to invest more in the civic area because the challenges that come from our diversity require extra strength in order for that diversity to in net make us stronger.

by xal 14y ago

mbesto 14y ago

Culturally speaking, America does not necessarily incentivize merit as much as Germany (and Europe) for that matter. We are a nation of marketers and salespeople, which means: (1) personal networks are key and (2) ability to sell is key. Our cultural is built on the ability to control hyperbole and attention fulfillment (bureaucracy) as opposed to hard work (meritocracy). The skills you learn in personal networks (mostly social) in American universities are much more valuable than the ones attained from apprenticeships. In the HN/SV bubble view of the world, this is may not seem true, but largely outside of that bubble it is. Therefore, what you are looking to do is make a massive cultural shift, not just fix a system. The best way you can fix our system is to continue to make yours (Germany) better. Competition breeds motivation to do better. note - I respect that some of my comments are very much generalized. And while I'm from the US, I do live in the UK and have lived in Germany.

redwood 14y ago

There is the question of the competency of a narrowly-educated public deciding critical matters in a democracy... The American liberal arts education tradition has this focus at its core, and the poster above alludes to it: the purpose of the education was not only to get a job, but rather to make full, well-rounded civic-minded citizens. On the one hand, the fact that German democracy seems to function so effectively, perhaps challenges this view. On the other hand, perhaps America needs to invest more in the civic area because the challenges that come from our diversity require extra strength in order for that diversity to in net make us stronger.