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Can anyone explain that "anti-science" crusade to me? This doesn't seem to have any effect than reduce America's standing in the world.

• fhdkweig 4mo ago
  Studying the ocean temperatures verifies that climate change is not a hoax. "He" is making money off fossil fuels. That is enough of a reason for being anti-science. This is the same guy that decided that the COVID numbers would go down if we just stopped measuring them. Burying his head in the sand is his go-to solution for all problems.
• justin66 4mo ago
  They're isolationists. They do not care about America's standing in the world.
• kevin_thibedeau 4mo ago
  It's all outlined in Gulliver's Travels.
• adithyareddy 4mo ago
  They're ideological goals, not technical ones. If they don't make sense to you it's because you're not viewing it through their ideological lens.
  • deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
• Isamu 4mo ago
  I think this is part of an anti-climate change agenda, which is about protecting fossil fuel investments. Not sure that it is broadly anti-science, except maybe in the sense of being against public funding broadly.
• CamperBob2 4mo ago
  Once you start asking what Trump would do differently if he actually were an agent or captive of hostile foreign interests, the rest will begin to make more sense.
• quantified 4mo ago
  If you believe that our leadership is being influenced by actors such as Vladimir Putin, then you see that this is intended.
• wnevets 4mo ago
  > reduce America's standing in the world. That is the goal.
  • jackyinger 4mo ago
    A small price to pay to increase the standing of a select few. /s
    • red-iron-pine 4mo ago
      the cyberpunk dystopia won't build itself
  • deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
• toomuchtodo 4mo ago
  If we do not have objective facts and data, the truth is whatever the loudest person says it is.
• epistasis 4mo ago
  Pretty much every single part of Project 2025 is designed to reduce America's standing in the world, not just the anti-science parts of it. It's a general trend across all authoritarian regimes; it's harder to be authoritarian with lots of international connections, with lots of strength and partnerships. Autarky, authoritarianism, isolation, all go together (along with weak economies, etc., but the goal isn't to have the biggest amount of pie, the goal is to be able to control all the pie slices and take the biggest portion, even if the pie is far smaller.)
  • jaybrendansmith 4mo ago
    When do we get to the part where we all collectively wake up and realize they are the enemy of the American People? You know, the part with the guillotines?
• naturalmovement 4mo ago
  There's a lot of collateral damage that could have been avoided if millions weren't being squandered on dubious "science" like studying grooming habits of trans aboriginals in the Central African Republic (a made-up scenario, but there are many like it). At some point the baby's going to be thrown out with the bath water until the course is corrected.
  • junofan 4mo ago
    [flagged]
    • epistasis 4mo ago
      Give me an example of this supposed phenomenon, because I haven't seen it. And anytime I've heard somebody claim with an actual example, it's been easy to disprove their assertions.
    • deleted 4mo ago
      [deleted]
  • epistasis 4mo ago
    > a made-up scenario, but there are many like it) There are many made-up scenarios, but not many real examples of what you are using to justify the weakening of the entire nation. And the fact that you had to fabricate something is literally proof of it. Now, go find any supposed "waste" and you'll find that, again, the science has been completely misrepresented to the public by an anti-science media source that was focused on creating fake propaganda rather than properly informing the public. Seriously. Prove me wrong, go find all this bath water that you claim exists, post it here!
  • pesus 4mo ago
    Instead of getting upset about made up scenarios, why don't you find some real scenarios? Like the one this thread is discussing, for instance.
  • enragedcacti 4mo ago
    Seriously, when our tax dollars pay for idiots to play around with lizard spit[1] all day, why should we trust anything they want to fund? [1] https://biomedical-sciences.uq.edu.au/article/2024/04/rise-ozempic-how-surprise-discoveries-and-lizard-venom-led-new-class-weight-loss-drugs https://biomedical-sciences.uq.edu.au/article/2024/04/rise-o...
• throwpoaster 4mo ago
  The steel man is that you can’t peer review your way to breakthroughs that change consensus, because peer review relies on consensus, so peer review has to be made subordinate to accountable decision makers.
• munificent 4mo ago
  The primary goal of authoritarianism is consolidation of power among a small number of elites. Anything that can reduce that power is an enemy. The essential weakness that the powerful elites have is that they are, by definition, outnumbered. So in order to consolidate and maintain power, they need to disturb any system that the masses can use to coordinate and form collective action. (It's a kid's movie, but Hopper's speech in "A Bug's Life" captures this very well: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/1hfo90u/hoppers_just_one_ant_speech_from_a_bugs_life_1998/ https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/1hfo90u/hoppers_jus...) Reality has a strong consensus-creating effect. We all live in the same material world, so simply by understanding it better and sharing that understanding, we will automatically trend towards having more common ground and more agreement. That's a threat to elite power, so authoritarian governments have always been anti-science. They may pay it lip service, or attempt to harness it to their own ends, but they never want an entire populace that it well-educated and grounded in reality, because well-informed masses are harder to divide and conquer.
  • junofan 4mo ago
    [flagged]
    • usernomdeguerre 4mo ago
      What supporting evidence would convince you concretely?
    • Hikikomori 4mo ago
      That they're fascist? And project 2025 is essentially a blueprint of what Hitler did by purging the bureaucracy of anyone that might oppose him. The new OMB guidelines extends it to anyone getting grants to do science. Its clear that Vought, Miller and even Vance are fans of Carl Schmitt as they're implementing his ideas, Vance has even mentioned him publicly.
    • AngryData 4mo ago
      I would point to the consistent consolidation of power upward in our government, from Congress to the President, away from States to Congress, away from local governments to State. Our population grows and yet congress is capped, our problems and cases grow and yet the Supreme Court isn't being increased and instead picks and chooses cases that support the federal government. I find it hard to believe anyone is willingly ceding power upward except towards the goal of a stronger more authoritarian rule by the elite classes because they don't think lesser people are worthy of making decisions. They don't care about stepping on others as long as they think they will get to do the stepping.
• st-keller 4mo ago
  If you want to be an authoritarian ruler, truth is the first thing you have to eliminate! If noone knows what is true, a leader can tell you what to believe! Science is our method to determine truth! A führer cannot have that!
  • gpm 4mo ago
    More than that if you're a professor (and thus an educator for the next generation) you're now incentivized to modify your speech in favour of the authoritarian in order to keep getting funding. I wouldn't underestimate the degree to which funding to these is being cut because climate scientists have historically been politically opposed to certain large republican donors that make their fortunes burning fossil fuels.
  • Hikikomori 4mo ago
    It was also the first things Hitler and Mussolini did once they got power.
    • epistasis 4mo ago
      And Mao and Lenin! Stalin's efforts at this are unparalleled, honestly, and we even allied with that asshole against Hitler and Mussolini. All totalitarians eliminate any other source of truth, power, or influence except themselves.
• datsci_est_2015 4mo ago
  You can read the profiles of people who run in the circles of those who have decision-making powers. Take for example the Wikipedia article for Liz Peek[1]: > Peek spent more than 20 years on Wall Street as a research analyst focused on the oil industry. She began working for Wertheim & Company in 1975 and in 1983, was one of the first women to become partner at a Wall Street investment firm. > Peek was the first woman elected president of the National Association of Petroleum Investment Analysts and was also a member of Institute of Chartered Financial Analysts. > She has written for The Fiscal Times, Fox News, the New York Sun, The Wall Street Journal, Alternate Universe, the Motley Fool, and Women on the Web and has appeared on Fox Business with Neil Cavuto and Fox & Friends. Peek contributes opinion pieces to The Hill. > Their son, Andrew Peek, studied at Princeton, Harvard, Johns Hopkins and the University of Texas at Austin, is a veteran of the US Army, and has worked for the Heritage Foundation and for two Republican US Senators and one Republican Congressman. He briefly served in each of the Trump administrations; as part of the State Department during Trump's first term, and as an advisor at the NSC during Trump's second term. Just read her opinion pieces and you’ll experience her worldview firsthand, which I can only presume comes from a foolish sense of self-righteousness for making a career out of enabling and exacerbating the fossil fuel crisis. Don’t think she would be able to sleep at night if she actually gave a shit about even learning about the potential impacts of climate change. And she’s a drop in the bucket - all of these people are like this. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liz_Peek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liz_Peek
  • RetroTechie 4mo ago
    I'm thinking.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck%27s_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck%27s_principle Often phrased as "science progresses one funeral at a time" ..applies here. Each time a Big Oil executive or one of their conspirators eats it, green tech progresses. They worked to build today's fossil-dependent world. 20-somethings work to build a world that does without fossils (and imho they're doing ok there).
    • datsci_est_2015 4mo ago
      Yeah, with the added factor that the US has large swaths of wealth that were accumulated from exploitation of the commons. In this case, natural resources with negative externalities tied to their extraction and consumption. It creates a sense of entitlement, as well as enforces a certain type of world view that justifies their actions. How would you feel if your entire career was being invalidated by those who you consider intellectually and culturally inferior political enemies?