3 ms·

why not use fiber directly and use whatever sfp for much cheaper without worry of heat

Tuna-Fish 4mo ago
For a lot of people, because they already have copper in the walls. You are correct that 10GBASE-T really shouldn't be the default choice, fiber and DAC both have advantages over it. But compatibility is important, and there are a lot of situations where 10GBASE-T is just more convenient.
- protocolture 4mo ago
  >because they already have copper in the walls. Makes a decent draw wire.
  - asteroidburger 4mo ago
    If the cabling was installed before the drywall, good chance it's stapled.
    - protocolture 4mo ago
      Thats hideous.
      - xxpor 4mo ago
        IIRC it's code :( Very silly IMO.
        protocolture 4mo ago
        I think the code probably allows for conduit.
    - ssl-3 4mo ago
      Even if it isn't stapled: Good chance that it has turns inside of walls, floors, and/or ceilings that are impossible to successfully pull new wire through without creating new access for someone to get their hands in there. Residential low-voltage cable plants are almost never implemented in a way that makes upgrades simple.
nubinetwork 4mo ago
DAC cables can get expensive, and nobody knows what to buy when it comes to fiber, unless you're running entire spools of the stuff inside buildings... OM3/OM4/OM5? Single mode/Multi mode? LC/SC? Regular people don't know this stuff...
- baby_souffle 4mo ago
  > Regular people don't know this stuff... Regular people also are not buying DACs. If you are in the line of work where you need to know what SFP is and the difference between DAC and Optical, a quick "what's OM3 vs OM5 and when do I use either?" to your favorite LLM/Search engine will get you sorted.
- simoncion 4mo ago
  > Regular people don't know this stuff... Regular people don't know whether to get Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6, or Cat7. So... yeah. > ...OM3/OM4/OM5? Single mode/Multi mode? LC/SC?... My answer is OM4, Multi-mode [0], LC. OM3, 4, and 5 will all work at 10gbit for any run you'd expect to make in most houses. I chose cable grade based on what was in stock at the local store. I chose connector type based on what fit into my NICs. I went with multi-mode because it was cheaper than single-mode and I wasn't going to be making multi-km runs. [0] That's what the "M" in in the cable designation means.
  - bigfatkitten 4mo ago
    Go with single mode only for new installs. Biggest install cost is labour. The cable and optics are cheap now, and with the future (200Gbps+) being multiple wavelengths in parallel[1], we’ve pretty much hit the end of the road for MMF. [1] https://www.tiafotc.org/ieee-802-3-ethernet-standards-update/singlemode-standards-update/200gbase-fr4/ https://www.tiafotc.org/ieee-802-3-ethernet-standards-update...
    - simoncion 4mo ago
      > Biggest install cost is labour. Okay? If I had to run cabling through a wall, I'd make sure the guy sets it up so that I can use the cable he installs to pull new later. My time's free when I'm doing something that I don't mind doing, and I don't mind easy cable pulls. > ...(200Gbps+)... Don't you need 16x PCIe 4.0 for those guys? With everything other than workstation and server boards having exactly one 16x slot, you're "never" hooking that up to a gaming PC.
seabre 4mo ago
For connecting via say a Macbook Pro, there used to not be Thunderbolt 4 SFP+ interfaces. So, you were pretty limited to some ethernet SFP+ module that you hope would actually work. Also personally, if you can get away with a copper DAC, I would rather use that instead of fiber because you don't need any special modules.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
drnick1 4mo ago
Access points, for example, expect PoE.

For a lot of people, because they already have copper in the walls. You are correct that 10GBASE-T really shouldn't be the default choice, fiber and DAC both have advantages over it. But compatibility is important, and there are a lot of situations where 10GBASE-T is just more convenient.

protocolture 4mo ago
>because they already have copper in the walls. Makes a decent draw wire.
- asteroidburger 4mo ago
  If the cabling was installed before the drywall, good chance it's stapled.
  - protocolture 4mo ago
    Thats hideous.
    - xxpor 4mo ago
      IIRC it's code :( Very silly IMO.
      - protocolture 4mo ago
        I think the code probably allows for conduit.
  - ssl-3 4mo ago
    Even if it isn't stapled: Good chance that it has turns inside of walls, floors, and/or ceilings that are impossible to successfully pull new wire through without creating new access for someone to get their hands in there. Residential low-voltage cable plants are almost never implemented in a way that makes upgrades simple.

nubinetwork 4mo ago

DAC cables can get expensive, and nobody knows what to buy when it comes to fiber, unless you're running entire spools of the stuff inside buildings... OM3/OM4/OM5? Single mode/Multi mode? LC/SC? Regular people don't know this stuff...

baby_souffle 4mo ago
> Regular people don't know this stuff... Regular people also are not buying DACs. If you are in the line of work where you need to know what SFP is and the difference between DAC and Optical, a quick "what's OM3 vs OM5 and when do I use either?" to your favorite LLM/Search engine will get you sorted.
simoncion 4mo ago
> Regular people don't know this stuff... Regular people don't know whether to get Cat5, Cat5e, Cat6, or Cat7. So... yeah. > ...OM3/OM4/OM5? Single mode/Multi mode? LC/SC?... My answer is OM4, Multi-mode [0], LC. OM3, 4, and 5 will all work at 10gbit for any run you'd expect to make in most houses. I chose cable grade based on what was in stock at the local store. I chose connector type based on what fit into my NICs. I went with multi-mode because it was cheaper than single-mode and I wasn't going to be making multi-km runs. [0] That's what the "M" in in the cable designation means.
- bigfatkitten 4mo ago
  Go with single mode only for new installs. Biggest install cost is labour. The cable and optics are cheap now, and with the future (200Gbps+) being multiple wavelengths in parallel[1], we’ve pretty much hit the end of the road for MMF. [1] https://www.tiafotc.org/ieee-802-3-ethernet-standards-update/singlemode-standards-update/200gbase-fr4/ https://www.tiafotc.org/ieee-802-3-ethernet-standards-update...
  - simoncion 4mo ago
    > Biggest install cost is labour. Okay? If I had to run cabling through a wall, I'd make sure the guy sets it up so that I can use the cable he installs to pull new later. My time's free when I'm doing something that I don't mind doing, and I don't mind easy cable pulls. > ...(200Gbps+)... Don't you need 16x PCIe 4.0 for those guys? With everything other than workstation and server boards having exactly one 16x slot, you're "never" hooking that up to a gaming PC.

seabre 4mo ago

For connecting via say a Macbook Pro, there used to not be Thunderbolt 4 SFP+ interfaces. So, you were pretty limited to some ethernet SFP+ module that you hope would actually work. Also personally, if you can get away with a copper DAC, I would rather use that instead of fiber because you don't need any special modules.

deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]

drnick1 4mo ago

Access points, for example, expect PoE.