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Russian assassins on foreign soil are also known to shot people during the day in broad daylight, just as [0] did in 2019 in Berlin Tiergarten park. Unfortunate

Russian assassins on foreign soil are also known to shot people during the day in broad daylight, just as [0] did in 2019 in Berlin Tiergarten park. Unfortunately, he was exchanged and is living freely after only a few years in german prison. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadim_Krasikov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadim_Krasikov

cubefox 4mo ago
Prisoners exchanges should be illegal if the crimes are disproportionate as in this case.
- FpUser 4mo ago
  I think saving one of your own who suffers because of protecting your country should take way more priority over simple vengeance.
  - cubefox 4mo ago
    It's not "simple vengeance". It's deterrence. If you don't punish assassins, assassinations will increase in expectation.
    - FpUser 4mo ago
      Bullshit. Who says anything about punishment. They are being punished, then there MAY come a choice. If you are so hell bent on "deterrence" look after presidential pardons. And if you do not save your own spies given a chance, the next one you want to hire will direct you straight to the place where the sun does not shine
      - cubefox 4mo ago
        > If you are so hell bent on "deterrence" look after presidential pardons. Yes, those create awful incentives and should absolutely not be legal. > And if you do not save your own spies given a chance One should not exchange spies for the cost of increasing political assasinations. Same reason as why you shouldn't pay kidnappers.
        cindyllm 4mo ago
        [dead]
        FpUser 4mo ago
        >"One should not exchange spies for the cost of increasing political assasinations. Same reason as why you shouldn't pay kidnappers." I strongly disagree for it to be used as a general approach for either spies or kidnappers. And who says it is exactly the cost? It is all coulda shoulda woulda and depends upon the particular situation.
    - tim333 4mo ago
      There are other ways you can deter though. Like actions against the government responsible rather than the individual.
- ogurechny 4mo ago
  International politics are fake. There is a gentleman's agreement that secret services can kill “traitors” and “enemies” anywhere as long as no one objects (or the objecting country is not important enough anyway). The hirelings get the fake documents that are perfectly known to the officials to be the token of non-diplomatic immunity, and also allow them to pretend they were once again fooled by the bad foreign state. In Skripal case, killers spent the day before waiting for some agents to appear at the location to tell them to go sightseeing somewhere else. Nothing happened = UK was OK with what they were doing. Only after the fact British officials started to create a scene, and what they were worried about most was the fact that Russian officials have sold the “special” passports to way too many “irrelevant” thugs and oligarchs who wanted to be untouchable when travelling abroad (hence the leak of the existence of those passports, and silent confirmation that they were respected by so-called free and lawful countries). You need to understand that those “above” are dumb bureaucrats playing dumb bureaucratic games. This is how societal selection works in current historical period. As for this case, Kadyrov (or his inner circle) is known to be emo about any critic, and has been successfully killing the Chechen refugees in Europe for decades now. Ukrainians also seem to operate freely, which is a bit ironic when you remember that Ukrainian agents were taught in the same secret military schools Russian agents graduated from, and that Ukrainian oligarchs have mansions on Côte d'Azur and similar places right next to mansions of Russian oligarchs. I sometimes worry about their travel logistics in such complex times. Poor creatures!
Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4mo ago
So who did the Germans get in exchange? Was it worth it like a basketball player for the Lord of War?
- flohofwoe 4mo ago
  As for German citizens: a red cross employee, an immigration lawyer, a 'political scientist' and a tourist who apparently tried to smuggle six gummy bears coated with canabis oil into Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Ankara_prisoner_exchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Ankara_prisoner_exchange (also various US and UK citizens)

cubefox 4mo ago

Prisoners exchanges should be illegal if the crimes are disproportionate as in this case.

FpUser 4mo ago
I think saving one of your own who suffers because of protecting your country should take way more priority over simple vengeance.
- cubefox 4mo ago
  It's not "simple vengeance". It's deterrence. If you don't punish assassins, assassinations will increase in expectation.
  - FpUser 4mo ago
    Bullshit. Who says anything about punishment. They are being punished, then there MAY come a choice. If you are so hell bent on "deterrence" look after presidential pardons. And if you do not save your own spies given a chance, the next one you want to hire will direct you straight to the place where the sun does not shine
    - cubefox 4mo ago
      > If you are so hell bent on "deterrence" look after presidential pardons. Yes, those create awful incentives and should absolutely not be legal. > And if you do not save your own spies given a chance One should not exchange spies for the cost of increasing political assasinations. Same reason as why you shouldn't pay kidnappers.
      - cindyllm 4mo ago
        [dead]
      - FpUser 4mo ago
        >"One should not exchange spies for the cost of increasing political assasinations. Same reason as why you shouldn't pay kidnappers." I strongly disagree for it to be used as a general approach for either spies or kidnappers. And who says it is exactly the cost? It is all coulda shoulda woulda and depends upon the particular situation.
  - tim333 4mo ago
    There are other ways you can deter though. Like actions against the government responsible rather than the individual.
ogurechny 4mo ago
International politics are fake. There is a gentleman's agreement that secret services can kill “traitors” and “enemies” anywhere as long as no one objects (or the objecting country is not important enough anyway). The hirelings get the fake documents that are perfectly known to the officials to be the token of non-diplomatic immunity, and also allow them to pretend they were once again fooled by the bad foreign state. In Skripal case, killers spent the day before waiting for some agents to appear at the location to tell them to go sightseeing somewhere else. Nothing happened = UK was OK with what they were doing. Only after the fact British officials started to create a scene, and what they were worried about most was the fact that Russian officials have sold the “special” passports to way too many “irrelevant” thugs and oligarchs who wanted to be untouchable when travelling abroad (hence the leak of the existence of those passports, and silent confirmation that they were respected by so-called free and lawful countries). You need to understand that those “above” are dumb bureaucrats playing dumb bureaucratic games. This is how societal selection works in current historical period. As for this case, Kadyrov (or his inner circle) is known to be emo about any critic, and has been successfully killing the Chechen refugees in Europe for decades now. Ukrainians also seem to operate freely, which is a bit ironic when you remember that Ukrainian agents were taught in the same secret military schools Russian agents graduated from, and that Ukrainian oligarchs have mansions on Côte d'Azur and similar places right next to mansions of Russian oligarchs. I sometimes worry about their travel logistics in such complex times. Poor creatures!

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 4mo ago

So who did the Germans get in exchange? Was it worth it like a basketball player for the Lord of War?

flohofwoe 4mo ago
As for German citizens: a red cross employee, an immigration lawyer, a 'political scientist' and a tourist who apparently tried to smuggle six gummy bears coated with canabis oil into Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Ankara_prisoner_exchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Ankara_prisoner_exchange (also various US and UK citizens)