12 ms·

My guess would be the hueristic is "I want to do simple thing, why is it so hard?" (Modern computing has an overabundance of "DX tarpits".) Which is funny beca

by andai 5mo ago

My guess would be the hueristic is "I want to do simple thing, why is it so hard?" (Modern computing has an overabundance of "DX tarpits".) Which is funny because, everyone has that experience, right? But then approximately nobody proceeds to do something about it. (Including most people who have the skills to make a difference!) Like, that's surprisingly mundane, and surprisingly actionable. --- If we distil it into a philosophy, it would be something like... - things should be good - they are not so good - I can learn to make them better And more broadly: "You can just do things"

athrowaway3z 5mo ago
I think you're underestimating the skill required to do it that well. Add 1 wrong feature and suddenly your simple project working around a DX tarpits is a new tarpit. A lot of devs like building features.
- atonse 5mo ago
  To be fair, almost zero people praise the dx for ffmpeg. but the utility and value is so massively high, that it overcomes the famously complex dx of ffmpeg. I'm not even insulting ffmpeg, if it does a million things, then there are going to be a million knobs. I think of git as the same. The git cli is not intuitive at all (unless that lightbulb goes off) but the utility is so good, that people just kind of suck it up and use it.
  - fc417fc802 5mo ago
    I think for what it is ffmpeg has about the best interface it possibly can. At least I find myself failing to imagine a better one. Complaining about it would be similar to complaining about jq IMO. Whereas the git cli is very clearly suboptimal. Unrelated tradeoffs aside, spend a while using an alternative DVCS such as mercurial if you doubt this.
    - atonse 5mo ago
      yeah jq was a good analogy. I tried so many times to like jq, but found the cli and syntax too complicated to use. But I only finally saw and appreciated how powerful it was when my agent started using it. Same with ffmpeg. I recently built an entire video out of 3 other source videos, just talking to claude, and it did everything (including audio adjustments, EVERYTHING) with ffmpeg. It was unbelievably cool.
abustamam 5mo ago
As an extension to your last point, here in the US people love complaining about politics (on both sides) but very few people (including me!) take the time to come up with solutions and go to town halls, or write to senators apart from the automated message that makes you feel like you did a thing, or even run for office. Of course, all of those are hard! And I think that speaks to the modern tarpits. No one set out to make a tarpit, it just happened and it's hard to make it perfect.
- taeric 5mo ago
  A big hidden in plain site facet of this, is few are willing to put forth the work within the existing system. That is, going to town halls, writing senators, and running for office are all standard parts of the system people are complaining about. And they are offering the complaints, largely, as stand in complaints for whole hosts of problems that they actually think are there. So, agreed, few are willing to ignore their general nebulous complaints and get into the system to work with it. They dream that there will be some magic shift of everything away from their complaints. My only twist is I think this is ok, as long as people stay grounded in the rest of their life. It is perfectly fine to dream. Is mostly fine to complain. No need to dirty the water where people are getting things done, though.
  - gopher_space 5mo ago
    I don’t know, it wasn’t until the pandemic and a layoff that I had time to actually sit and think. There’s a reason that most of the voters (and protesters in my area) are retired, and it isn’t apathy. I don’t have time to educate myself on these topics in any real depth. And I need to educate myself because the push information is all bullshit. Digging into policing in Seattle, the official and public conversation was all culture war while the actual problems looked like simple incompetence from a system analysis perspective. I don’t have the bandwidth to deal with this kind of fumbling on every topic, and I’m realizing that my parents didn’t live in a low-trust society like I do.
    - taeric 5mo ago
chollida1 5mo ago
> "DX tarpits" Google shows no results for this term so i'm guessing its your own short hand for something hard?
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- blanched 5mo ago
  Potentially a play on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_tarpit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_tarpit (DX is developer experience, tarpit is used idiomatically to mean “slow/difficult thing”)
  - chollida1 5mo ago
    Ah, thank you.
- quietbritishjim 5mo ago
  DX is developer experience (analogous to UX for user experience). Tarpit is often used as an analogy for anything that suddenly slows you down.
psychoslave 5mo ago
That's still make the hard part present. Things are not good on so many considerations. So selecting and being able to focus for just as much time as it will be required are the hard part. Thus starting with learning wow meditation seems an important first step. For all the rest, it's already going to be more issues on how to prioritize getting the ressources mapped where seems to fit to reach the goals.
FpUser 5mo ago
>"DX tarpits" This is my approach which I use for SMBs (my actual clients). Never failed in decades. I am on my own since year 2000 and few times before that. 1) Always start with building single vertically scalable monolith running on dedicated server which can serve reasonable amount of transactions / date volume with acceptable performance. 2) Only start adding to infra when vertical scaling stops working (well you get some warning sign before it actually starting to hurt business) and then do it strictly on on need basis. Only rewrite / rearchitect if you see approaching google scale and can not shard simply by XXX-Canada, XXX-US etc. This will of course fail on some specialized scenarios but we are talking plain vanilla business backends for SMB.
zerobees 5mo ago
The actual calculus is that you spent 30 minutes on something that should have taken 30 seconds, but then you're done with it. The "proper" solution is to spend months or years fixing the workflow for complete strangers for free, even though you personally will never get that time back. Yeah, it moves the world forward, but it's not always the best choice on a personal level. Also keep in mind that most of such charitable work goes nowhere. There is a fair number of projects shaped like ffmpeg or QEMU that have never achieved the critical mass. I've written a number of small utilities that simply went unnoticed because they were never featured on HN or anywhere else. Writing FOSS is pretty similar to starting your own band. It helps if you're a good singer, but it's not enough.
- computerdork 5mo ago
  Ah, agreed, this is how it is with almost all personal projects even outside of software. Am experiencing this in music too, almost none of them go anywhere. Got to do them because you enjoy them

by andai 5mo ago

athrowaway3z 5mo ago

I think you're underestimating the skill required to do it that well. Add 1 wrong feature and suddenly your simple project working around a DX tarpits is a new tarpit. A lot of devs like building features.

atonse 5mo ago
To be fair, almost zero people praise the dx for ffmpeg. but the utility and value is so massively high, that it overcomes the famously complex dx of ffmpeg. I'm not even insulting ffmpeg, if it does a million things, then there are going to be a million knobs. I think of git as the same. The git cli is not intuitive at all (unless that lightbulb goes off) but the utility is so good, that people just kind of suck it up and use it.
- fc417fc802 5mo ago
  I think for what it is ffmpeg has about the best interface it possibly can. At least I find myself failing to imagine a better one. Complaining about it would be similar to complaining about jq IMO. Whereas the git cli is very clearly suboptimal. Unrelated tradeoffs aside, spend a while using an alternative DVCS such as mercurial if you doubt this.
  - atonse 5mo ago
    yeah jq was a good analogy. I tried so many times to like jq, but found the cli and syntax too complicated to use. But I only finally saw and appreciated how powerful it was when my agent started using it. Same with ffmpeg. I recently built an entire video out of 3 other source videos, just talking to claude, and it did everything (including audio adjustments, EVERYTHING) with ffmpeg. It was unbelievably cool.

abustamam 5mo ago

As an extension to your last point, here in the US people love complaining about politics (on both sides) but very few people (including me!) take the time to come up with solutions and go to town halls, or write to senators apart from the automated message that makes you feel like you did a thing, or even run for office. Of course, all of those are hard! And I think that speaks to the modern tarpits. No one set out to make a tarpit, it just happened and it's hard to make it perfect.

taeric 5mo ago
A big hidden in plain site facet of this, is few are willing to put forth the work within the existing system. That is, going to town halls, writing senators, and running for office are all standard parts of the system people are complaining about. And they are offering the complaints, largely, as stand in complaints for whole hosts of problems that they actually think are there. So, agreed, few are willing to ignore their general nebulous complaints and get into the system to work with it. They dream that there will be some magic shift of everything away from their complaints. My only twist is I think this is ok, as long as people stay grounded in the rest of their life. It is perfectly fine to dream. Is mostly fine to complain. No need to dirty the water where people are getting things done, though.
- gopher_space 5mo ago
  I don’t know, it wasn’t until the pandemic and a layoff that I had time to actually sit and think. There’s a reason that most of the voters (and protesters in my area) are retired, and it isn’t apathy. I don’t have time to educate myself on these topics in any real depth. And I need to educate myself because the push information is all bullshit. Digging into policing in Seattle, the official and public conversation was all culture war while the actual problems looked like simple incompetence from a system analysis perspective. I don’t have the bandwidth to deal with this kind of fumbling on every topic, and I’m realizing that my parents didn’t live in a low-trust society like I do.
  - taeric 5mo ago

chollida1 5mo ago

> "DX tarpits" Google shows no results for this term so i'm guessing its your own short hand for something hard?

deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
blanched 5mo ago
Potentially a play on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_tarpit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_tarpit (DX is developer experience, tarpit is used idiomatically to mean “slow/difficult thing”)
- chollida1 5mo ago
  Ah, thank you.
quietbritishjim 5mo ago
DX is developer experience (analogous to UX for user experience). Tarpit is often used as an analogy for anything that suddenly slows you down.

psychoslave 5mo ago

That's still make the hard part present. Things are not good on so many considerations. So selecting and being able to focus for just as much time as it will be required are the hard part. Thus starting with learning wow meditation seems an important first step. For all the rest, it's already going to be more issues on how to prioritize getting the ressources mapped where seems to fit to reach the goals.

FpUser 5mo ago

>"DX tarpits" This is my approach which I use for SMBs (my actual clients). Never failed in decades. I am on my own since year 2000 and few times before that. 1) Always start with building single vertically scalable monolith running on dedicated server which can serve reasonable amount of transactions / date volume with acceptable performance. 2) Only start adding to infra when vertical scaling stops working (well you get some warning sign before it actually starting to hurt business) and then do it strictly on on need basis. Only rewrite / rearchitect if you see approaching google scale and can not shard simply by XXX-Canada, XXX-US etc. This will of course fail on some specialized scenarios but we are talking plain vanilla business backends for SMB.

zerobees 5mo ago

The actual calculus is that you spent 30 minutes on something that should have taken 30 seconds, but then you're done with it. The "proper" solution is to spend months or years fixing the workflow for complete strangers for free, even though you personally will never get that time back. Yeah, it moves the world forward, but it's not always the best choice on a personal level. Also keep in mind that most of such charitable work goes nowhere. There is a fair number of projects shaped like ffmpeg or QEMU that have never achieved the critical mass. I've written a number of small utilities that simply went unnoticed because they were never featured on HN or anywhere else. Writing FOSS is pretty similar to starting your own band. It helps if you're a good singer, but it's not enough.

computerdork 5mo ago
Ah, agreed, this is how it is with almost all personal projects even outside of software. Am experiencing this in music too, almost none of them go anywhere. Got to do them because you enjoy them