5 ms·

Many regular users beg to differ. At least, in my experience, the people who are less familiar with computers are the ones that love the new features the most.

Many regular users beg to differ. At least, in my experience, the people who are less familiar with computers are the ones that love the new features the most. Especially launchpad and such. Also, just curious, but what about Lion / Mountain lion disqualifies it from being a "true" desktop OS?

alex_c 14y ago
The reversed scrolling direction jumps to mind. Minor in the large scheme of things, but it shows a conscious move towards combining the desktop and mobile concepts.
- mitchty 14y ago
  The thing is, on a trackpad it makes more sense now after getting used to our phones touch. Also its a quick defaults away to change back to the old way. defaults write -g com.apple.swipescrolldirection -bool false I find it amusing that on a site like Hacker News people are complaining about vastly simple things to change. If they remove the choice maybe then complain, but this is a vast non-issue compared to the tweaking I have to do on linux.
  - esolyt 14y ago
    They're not complaining because it's difficult to change. They're complaining because they are unhappy with the mentality and the direction OSX is going.
    - mitchty 14y ago
      I understand that, it just comes across as someone moving their cheese. I guess I don't expect my desktop os to stay static forever. Change isn't always bad, I was in their camp until about a day after using it in which I realized it wasn't that big of a deal in the first place.
  - dmd 14y ago
    Or you can just check a box. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/178401/Screenshots/-qre.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/178401/Screenshots/-qre.png
jlgreco 14y ago
The 90s seem like they would have been a good time to worry about users who don't really know what computers are. Why are we now driving for that market when everyone under the age of 30 grew up using modern computers? Are we still gunning from the mostly imaginary "grandmother who doesn't know how to use computers" market? The market that 1) is only shrinking, if indeed it ever existed and 2) presumably doesn't buy computers... Makes about as much sense as designing all cars in the 50s for people who grew up with horses. While those people are certainly still alive, it is a business strategy decades out of place.
- mhurron 14y ago
  Do you work with people? General people 'get' computers as much as they did in the 90's and they've been using them the whole time.
- dbaupp 14y ago
  Just because people are used to something doesn't mean that the something is optimal, that no improvements can be made, or that a simplification isn't useful.
- gtd 14y ago
  It's not about people who don't know what computers are. It's about creating simple solutions to common problems. Most people do not want to fiddle with their computers regardless of how well they understand them, they want to accomplish a task and move on. Even as a developer this is why I choose OS X over Linux. The question is how far can they push it without totally frustrating the power users. I think it may be inevitable that Apple eventually stops making machines that the majority of non-Apple developers can tolerate.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    I don't think that is what is being done. Making things better is something that can be enjoyed by all users, not just "regular" users. This part of ComputerGuru's post is what resonates with me: > But my biggest pet peeve is just the sheer dumbing down of things. iTunes 11 is pretty, but why put everything a click away? What was so bad about a sidebar that makes everything instantly accessible and only takes 80px? Why does the app now prefer to be run in full screen? Some things are legitimately being improved. Network configuration in all of the major operating systems is a great example of this. NetworkManager is wildly better than manually editing a wpa_supplicant file, and Windows/Macs have seen similar improvements. Not "Better for 'Regular Users'(tm).", just "Better.". There seems to be a sort of schizophrenia in the field of "improving" computers. On one hand you have people who are honestly just trying to make things better (and are, for the most part, succeeding). It seems to me like you fall into this camp. You see value in changing things to improve the situation for everybody. I totally dig that attitude. However on the other hand you have people who are trying to make things better... for people who are perpetually trapped in the 90s. The improvements these people create are the ones that concern me. Both are trying to improve things, but the attitude towards users is very different. I only mean to attack the second camp of "software improvement"; I think their motivation is flawed, outdated, and toxic.
radley 14y ago
- parlor trick animations everywhere - Sandboxing non-App store apps - obfuscating "active" icon for running apps - daffy notification center - hidden user Library - focus on weaker iOS UI w/ fullscreen apps and Launchpad - half-ass support for multiple monitors (fullscreen, auto-brightness) - iTunes 11 dumbed down to iPad version - Time Machine won't restore previous Apple apps - massive Finder UI bugs (lists don't update, don't always order correctly, show as blank, coverflow view doesn't match list view) - threading freezes when copying files hardware degradation: - device noise in audio port - crash when connecting to Cinema Display - MBP keyboard & trackpad don't respond after using external mouse & keyboard old classics: - migration away from desktop view, can't see hard drive / files - QuickTime X dumbed down from QT7
- gtd 14y ago
  Could you elaborate on: > Sandboxing non-App store apps I thought sandboxing was only required for App store apps?
  - radley 14y ago
    Some features in the OS require the app to be distributed via the App Store.
- radley 14y ago
  Anonymous downvoters: how am I wrong? I've been exclusively Mac for almost 20 years so I know the difference.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]

alex_c 14y ago

The reversed scrolling direction jumps to mind. Minor in the large scheme of things, but it shows a conscious move towards combining the desktop and mobile concepts.

mitchty 14y ago
The thing is, on a trackpad it makes more sense now after getting used to our phones touch. Also its a quick defaults away to change back to the old way. defaults write -g com.apple.swipescrolldirection -bool false I find it amusing that on a site like Hacker News people are complaining about vastly simple things to change. If they remove the choice maybe then complain, but this is a vast non-issue compared to the tweaking I have to do on linux.
- esolyt 14y ago
  They're not complaining because it's difficult to change. They're complaining because they are unhappy with the mentality and the direction OSX is going.
  - mitchty 14y ago
    I understand that, it just comes across as someone moving their cheese. I guess I don't expect my desktop os to stay static forever. Change isn't always bad, I was in their camp until about a day after using it in which I realized it wasn't that big of a deal in the first place.
- dmd 14y ago
  Or you can just check a box. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/178401/Screenshots/-qre.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/178401/Screenshots/-qre.png

jlgreco 14y ago

The 90s seem like they would have been a good time to worry about users who don't really know what computers are. Why are we now driving for that market when everyone under the age of 30 grew up using modern computers? Are we still gunning from the mostly imaginary "grandmother who doesn't know how to use computers" market? The market that 1) is only shrinking, if indeed it ever existed and 2) presumably doesn't buy computers... Makes about as much sense as designing all cars in the 50s for people who grew up with horses. While those people are certainly still alive, it is a business strategy decades out of place.

mhurron 14y ago
Do you work with people? General people 'get' computers as much as they did in the 90's and they've been using them the whole time.
dbaupp 14y ago
Just because people are used to something doesn't mean that the something is optimal, that no improvements can be made, or that a simplification isn't useful.
gtd 14y ago
It's not about people who don't know what computers are. It's about creating simple solutions to common problems. Most people do not want to fiddle with their computers regardless of how well they understand them, they want to accomplish a task and move on. Even as a developer this is why I choose OS X over Linux. The question is how far can they push it without totally frustrating the power users. I think it may be inevitable that Apple eventually stops making machines that the majority of non-Apple developers can tolerate.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  I don't think that is what is being done. Making things better is something that can be enjoyed by all users, not just "regular" users. This part of ComputerGuru's post is what resonates with me: > But my biggest pet peeve is just the sheer dumbing down of things. iTunes 11 is pretty, but why put everything a click away? What was so bad about a sidebar that makes everything instantly accessible and only takes 80px? Why does the app now prefer to be run in full screen? Some things are legitimately being improved. Network configuration in all of the major operating systems is a great example of this. NetworkManager is wildly better than manually editing a wpa_supplicant file, and Windows/Macs have seen similar improvements. Not "Better for 'Regular Users'(tm).", just "Better.". There seems to be a sort of schizophrenia in the field of "improving" computers. On one hand you have people who are honestly just trying to make things better (and are, for the most part, succeeding). It seems to me like you fall into this camp. You see value in changing things to improve the situation for everybody. I totally dig that attitude. However on the other hand you have people who are trying to make things better... for people who are perpetually trapped in the 90s. The improvements these people create are the ones that concern me. Both are trying to improve things, but the attitude towards users is very different. I only mean to attack the second camp of "software improvement"; I think their motivation is flawed, outdated, and toxic.

radley 14y ago

- parlor trick animations everywhere - Sandboxing non-App store apps - obfuscating "active" icon for running apps - daffy notification center - hidden user Library - focus on weaker iOS UI w/ fullscreen apps and Launchpad - half-ass support for multiple monitors (fullscreen, auto-brightness) - iTunes 11 dumbed down to iPad version - Time Machine won't restore previous Apple apps - massive Finder UI bugs (lists don't update, don't always order correctly, show as blank, coverflow view doesn't match list view) - threading freezes when copying files hardware degradation: - device noise in audio port - crash when connecting to Cinema Display - MBP keyboard & trackpad don't respond after using external mouse & keyboard old classics: - migration away from desktop view, can't see hard drive / files - QuickTime X dumbed down from QT7

gtd 14y ago
Could you elaborate on: > Sandboxing non-App store apps I thought sandboxing was only required for App store apps?
- radley 14y ago
  Some features in the OS require the app to be distributed via the App Store.
radley 14y ago
Anonymous downvoters: how am I wrong? I've been exclusively Mac for almost 20 years so I know the difference.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]