4 ms·

Correct me if I am wrong, but AI made software development and operations more expensive than before. Yes, it is faster too, but the question: is it worth the p

Correct me if I am wrong, but AI made software development and operations more expensive than before. Yes, it is faster too, but the question: is it worth the price? Can the users consume new features in that pace?

jvuygbbkuurx 4mo ago
Prices aren't high for the current capabilities or demand. It is all a bet on the future.
grishka 4mo ago
The use of AI is still optional.
- noodlesUK 4mo ago
  Yes but paying massively inflated prices for compute are not anymore. Even for consumer gear I am being quoted prices that are more than 2x what they were only a year ago (and availability is hard).
- SoftTalker 4mo ago
  But its impact on new hardware costs and replacement costs is not. A company like Hetzner probably replaces hardware on a 5 year cycle. Maybe shorter. Maybe they could try to stretch that out but they can't avoid the cost of new hardware for very long.
  - jnwatson 4mo ago
    I think it is worse for Hetzner. The secret is out. Their prices have attracted a lot of demand, and they need to buy equipment to satisfy that demand. The last Hetzner box I leased I had to poll for availability as if I was Ebay auction sniping. It took me 2 days to acquire it.
    - SoftTalker 4mo ago
      Absolutely. Replacement is one thing, but there is also the need for new hardware to meet growing demand.
- danesparza 4mo ago
  And yet the hardware cost increases caused by AI are not.
Pxtl 4mo ago
AI could theoretically also be used to optimize existing code instead of producing new features, allowing existing tech to run on lighter hardware. Rent me an rpi if the software is fast.
- SoftTalker 4mo ago
  Thanks for the laugh. When has optimization ever been a priority over delivering new features? AI is going to make this problem far worse.
- fluidcruft 4mo ago
  Raspberry Pis are also quite expensive now.
conradfr 4mo ago
Maybe AI could now optimize all the server software made when RAM was cheap.
- andix 4mo ago
  I think we are also going to see a lot of new software that is less hungry on compute and RAM than before. Probably first with games not requiring new hardware anymore. Because the consumers won't upgrade to new hardware as fast as before. People who buy their first gaming PC in 2027 might even get a lower spec in average than people who bought in 2025. So new games might require even lower hardware specs than before, to sell enough copies.
  - applfanboysbgon 4mo ago
    This is a wishful fantasy. Vibe coded applications like ChatGPT desktop and Claude Code routinely take 1~2GB of RAM to display <1kb of text. There is zero initiative to make better software, the software industry is just saying "fuck you" to the rest of the world until the bubble pops.
    - andix 4mo ago
      Sure, that's why I think it will start with games. You don't buy a game if you can't (properly) play it. Either you get a new gaming PC, or stop buying new games and keep playing old ones.
citrin_ru 4mo ago
AI investors bet on the high return in the next 10-15 years, they have no reasons to care if everything which require semiconductors will become much more expensive in the process.
iLoveOncall 4mo ago
> Can the users consume new features in that pace? It's pretty clear by now that coding productivity increases by 10-15% with AI. Given coding is only a small part of the developer's job, there's just nothing new to consume. The only change I have noticed in software since LLMs have hit the mass market is degradation of software quality, not increase in feature releases. Prices have increased for literally nothing.
- andix 4mo ago
  > The only change I have noticed in software since LLMs have hit the mass market is degradation of software quality, not increase in feature releases. Not fully true. AI is now often used to fix a lot of bugs in old and badly maintained software. The quality of big and popular software probably decreased a bit, but the quality of niche products probably improved.
- BigJono 4mo ago
  > It's pretty clear by now that coding productivity increases by 10-15% with AI. Completely offtopic for this thread but I can't be the only one that would find this hilarious if it wasn't being said in earnest in every thread. The only thing that is clear is that measuring programming is just as impossible as it has always been. In all my years of projects they've either been resounding successes or gone down in flames. The difference between good and bad is a difference in kind. Most of the bad ones didn't even know what the hell they were building and built the wrong thing. Like, the entire idea that some omniscient manager is looking at a thousand timelines and pondering over whether to pick the $11.5M successful one or the $9.5M successful one is literally laughable. Half of them are going to make the Hindenburg look like a bit of a whoopsie and the other half you would lock in sight unseen without a second thought.
  - iLoveOncall 4mo ago
    > Completely offtopic for this thread but I can't be the only one that would find this hilarious if it wasn't being said in earnest in every thread. Sorry, I meant 10-15% at most. If it was by more than that then we'd see the effects in an obvious way. Since we don't those 15% are already generous.
andix 4mo ago
I start to think that AI might be a net negative on the economy. It consumes an enormous amount of resources, just to keep doing what we did before. Laying off people also doesn't reduce cost as much as it might look like. There is a lot of hidden cost shared by everyone (also the companies that did the lay offs are hit by them). Unemployed people still have to eat and pay rent, and someone is paying for that. They spend less money on services and goods, which affects every company in the end. AI is great, but I think it got too big. Just my thoughts, not backed by any data. I'm not even sure I'm right.
- Capricorn2481 4mo ago
  > I start to think that AI might be a net negative on the economy. It consumes an enormous amount of resources, just to keep doing what we did before Outside of HN, this is all people are seeing. Gamers in particular aren't seeing a benefit. They are being priced out of their hobby. The recent DDLS 5 meme is what people think of when they hear AI.
  - andix 4mo ago
    Even inside the software bubble it's debatable if there is a significant benefit on productivity (judged by total cost). But even pure software companies are hit by higher hardware prices. Their customers need to buy expensive hardware and have less budget left to spend on software.
    - Oras 4mo ago
      It will clearer soon after the api pricing model enforced on enterprise accounts. I suspect this will soon follow and no fixed subscription model, which will enforce companies/developers to be moderate and thoughtful when using AI. Also I think Microsoft will do the same for copilot
  - chadgpt3 4mo ago
    DLSS 5 Deep Learning Super-Sampling
- 4mo ago
gchamonlive 4mo ago
> is faster too, but the question: is it worth the price? Those aren't the only metrics, quality and efficiency is also important. AIslop is of higher quality than devslop on average.
- entropi 4mo ago
  > AIslop is of higher quality than devslop on average. Is it? If by higher quality, you mean commenting properly, sticking to naming conventions etc. I can agree. But to me, AIslop looks like it lacks "intentionality" of code written by devs, no matter how bad they are at naming things and sticking to conventions. i.e. people who are adequately good at their jobs usually do things for a reason, and they can explain it. Even if you don't find it agreeable, it usually is consistent.
  - gchamonlive 4mo ago
    Is it AI that lacks intentionality or your prompts? Just remember we are comparing slops. If you care about your code it really doesn't matter if you write it manually or with the help of a glorified typewriter.
    - chadgpt3 4mo ago
      it can't be bad - if it's bad you must be using it wrong
      - deleted 4mo ago
        [deleted]
      - gchamonlive 4mo ago
        It can't be good, you aren't seeing the slop
- arcatech 4mo ago
  > AIslop is of higher quality than devslop on average. How did you come to that conclusion? That goes against everything I've heard from people who understand development. Every resource I can find about AI vs non-AI development comes to the exact opposite conclusion you did.
_3u10 4mo ago
Not really. You can still not use AI. The solid data is that RAM is more expensive than before… so there’s a small case to be made there because of you need a new computer you can’t avoid that.

jvuygbbkuurx 4mo ago

Prices aren't high for the current capabilities or demand. It is all a bet on the future.

grishka 4mo ago

The use of AI is still optional.

noodlesUK 4mo ago
Yes but paying massively inflated prices for compute are not anymore. Even for consumer gear I am being quoted prices that are more than 2x what they were only a year ago (and availability is hard).
SoftTalker 4mo ago
But its impact on new hardware costs and replacement costs is not. A company like Hetzner probably replaces hardware on a 5 year cycle. Maybe shorter. Maybe they could try to stretch that out but they can't avoid the cost of new hardware for very long.
- jnwatson 4mo ago
  I think it is worse for Hetzner. The secret is out. Their prices have attracted a lot of demand, and they need to buy equipment to satisfy that demand. The last Hetzner box I leased I had to poll for availability as if I was Ebay auction sniping. It took me 2 days to acquire it.
  - SoftTalker 4mo ago
    Absolutely. Replacement is one thing, but there is also the need for new hardware to meet growing demand.
danesparza 4mo ago
And yet the hardware cost increases caused by AI are not.

Pxtl 4mo ago

AI could theoretically also be used to optimize existing code instead of producing new features, allowing existing tech to run on lighter hardware. Rent me an rpi if the software is fast.

SoftTalker 4mo ago
Thanks for the laugh. When has optimization ever been a priority over delivering new features? AI is going to make this problem far worse.
fluidcruft 4mo ago
Raspberry Pis are also quite expensive now.

conradfr 4mo ago

Maybe AI could now optimize all the server software made when RAM was cheap.

andix 4mo ago
I think we are also going to see a lot of new software that is less hungry on compute and RAM than before. Probably first with games not requiring new hardware anymore. Because the consumers won't upgrade to new hardware as fast as before. People who buy their first gaming PC in 2027 might even get a lower spec in average than people who bought in 2025. So new games might require even lower hardware specs than before, to sell enough copies.
- applfanboysbgon 4mo ago
  This is a wishful fantasy. Vibe coded applications like ChatGPT desktop and Claude Code routinely take 1~2GB of RAM to display <1kb of text. There is zero initiative to make better software, the software industry is just saying "fuck you" to the rest of the world until the bubble pops.
  - andix 4mo ago
    Sure, that's why I think it will start with games. You don't buy a game if you can't (properly) play it. Either you get a new gaming PC, or stop buying new games and keep playing old ones.

citrin_ru 4mo ago

AI investors bet on the high return in the next 10-15 years, they have no reasons to care if everything which require semiconductors will become much more expensive in the process.

iLoveOncall 4mo ago

> Can the users consume new features in that pace? It's pretty clear by now that coding productivity increases by 10-15% with AI. Given coding is only a small part of the developer's job, there's just nothing new to consume. The only change I have noticed in software since LLMs have hit the mass market is degradation of software quality, not increase in feature releases. Prices have increased for literally nothing.

andix 4mo ago
> The only change I have noticed in software since LLMs have hit the mass market is degradation of software quality, not increase in feature releases. Not fully true. AI is now often used to fix a lot of bugs in old and badly maintained software. The quality of big and popular software probably decreased a bit, but the quality of niche products probably improved.
BigJono 4mo ago
> It's pretty clear by now that coding productivity increases by 10-15% with AI. Completely offtopic for this thread but I can't be the only one that would find this hilarious if it wasn't being said in earnest in every thread. The only thing that is clear is that measuring programming is just as impossible as it has always been. In all my years of projects they've either been resounding successes or gone down in flames. The difference between good and bad is a difference in kind. Most of the bad ones didn't even know what the hell they were building and built the wrong thing. Like, the entire idea that some omniscient manager is looking at a thousand timelines and pondering over whether to pick the $11.5M successful one or the $9.5M successful one is literally laughable. Half of them are going to make the Hindenburg look like a bit of a whoopsie and the other half you would lock in sight unseen without a second thought.
- iLoveOncall 4mo ago
  > Completely offtopic for this thread but I can't be the only one that would find this hilarious if it wasn't being said in earnest in every thread. Sorry, I meant 10-15% at most. If it was by more than that then we'd see the effects in an obvious way. Since we don't those 15% are already generous.

andix 4mo ago

I start to think that AI might be a net negative on the economy. It consumes an enormous amount of resources, just to keep doing what we did before. Laying off people also doesn't reduce cost as much as it might look like. There is a lot of hidden cost shared by everyone (also the companies that did the lay offs are hit by them). Unemployed people still have to eat and pay rent, and someone is paying for that. They spend less money on services and goods, which affects every company in the end. AI is great, but I think it got too big. Just my thoughts, not backed by any data. I'm not even sure I'm right.

Capricorn2481 4mo ago
> I start to think that AI might be a net negative on the economy. It consumes an enormous amount of resources, just to keep doing what we did before Outside of HN, this is all people are seeing. Gamers in particular aren't seeing a benefit. They are being priced out of their hobby. The recent DDLS 5 meme is what people think of when they hear AI.
- andix 4mo ago
  Even inside the software bubble it's debatable if there is a significant benefit on productivity (judged by total cost). But even pure software companies are hit by higher hardware prices. Their customers need to buy expensive hardware and have less budget left to spend on software.
  - Oras 4mo ago
    It will clearer soon after the api pricing model enforced on enterprise accounts. I suspect this will soon follow and no fixed subscription model, which will enforce companies/developers to be moderate and thoughtful when using AI. Also I think Microsoft will do the same for copilot
- chadgpt3 4mo ago
  DLSS 5 Deep Learning Super-Sampling
4mo ago

gchamonlive 4mo ago

> is faster too, but the question: is it worth the price? Those aren't the only metrics, quality and efficiency is also important. AIslop is of higher quality than devslop on average.

entropi 4mo ago
> AIslop is of higher quality than devslop on average. Is it? If by higher quality, you mean commenting properly, sticking to naming conventions etc. I can agree. But to me, AIslop looks like it lacks "intentionality" of code written by devs, no matter how bad they are at naming things and sticking to conventions. i.e. people who are adequately good at their jobs usually do things for a reason, and they can explain it. Even if you don't find it agreeable, it usually is consistent.
- gchamonlive 4mo ago
  Is it AI that lacks intentionality or your prompts? Just remember we are comparing slops. If you care about your code it really doesn't matter if you write it manually or with the help of a glorified typewriter.
  - chadgpt3 4mo ago
    it can't be bad - if it's bad you must be using it wrong
    - deleted 4mo ago
      [deleted]
    - gchamonlive 4mo ago
      It can't be good, you aren't seeing the slop
arcatech 4mo ago
> AIslop is of higher quality than devslop on average. How did you come to that conclusion? That goes against everything I've heard from people who understand development. Every resource I can find about AI vs non-AI development comes to the exact opposite conclusion you did.

_3u10 4mo ago

Not really. You can still not use AI. The solid data is that RAM is more expensive than before… so there’s a small case to be made there because of you need a new computer you can’t avoid that.