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> a house next to immigrants This assumes there is something wrong with immigrants. I've lived next to many immigrants. Almost everyone in the US is an immigra

by mmooss 4mo ago

> a house next to immigrants This assumes there is something wrong with immigrants. I've lived next to many immigrants. Almost everyone in the US is an immigrant or decended from them. The problem is the hateful - they destroy the society and neighborhood. > lower quality Humans are not lower or higher quality - except arguably those acting on hate, who damage the social contract of liberty.

aurareturn 4mo ago
I'm explaining why Japan is doing this. A lot of people don't understand why Japan would do this when their population is already declining. It's because to the working class, a declining population isn't the most pressing issue. In fact, some of them may even want that because it means more resources to everyone else. Mass importing immigrants causes many issues for locals. Anyone who denies this is simply virtue signaling. To businesses and governments, a declining population means lower market size and lower tax income. They're incentivized to want a larger population - sometimes by any means necessary. And no, you can't mass import high quality immigrants because high quality immigrants have options and generally don't want to move to a country that isn't their culture or speak their own language. You will always end up with lower quality immigrants from the 3rd world.
- mmooss 4mo ago
  > Anyone who denies this is simply virtue signaling. Dismissing other opinions in words but not arguments is vacuous. Fabricating and attacking their motives is more evidence (not fabrication) that the argument is nothing but bias plastered over with empty words. So is the parroting of the talking points of some social tide. > quality Human beings are not low quality or high quality - and especially not based on your preference or personal benefit - and economics and history clearly show the benefit of more people with freedom and opportunity, including to the people gaining freedom and opportunity. They are as important as, and have as much 'quality' as you - otherwise, you are not important either.
  - aurareturn 4mo ago
    Dismissing other opinions in words but not arguments is vacuous. Meanwhile, you dismissed the will of Japanese people as "hateful" for not wanting more immigrants.
    - mmooss 4mo ago
      More of the standard rhetoric. It's like an algorithm generating these comments or an LLM. It just responds with copypasta without even knowing what I said.
- ElProlactin 4mo ago
  I'm sorry but you're spewing a lot of misinformation here. Japan's relationship with immigration is complex but what you're talking about really has nothing to do with the business manager visa. Japan continues to "import" larger and larger numbers of foreign workers to do jobs that it doesn't have enough native-born workers to perform. Think factory workers, nurses, truck drivers, retail. The problem with the business manager visa was that it was being abused by people who weren't actually running real businesses in Japan. They were setting up shells to obtain residency. Much of the abuse was by Chinese nationals, which was for obvious reasons especially disturbing to Japanese given the history between the two countries. Japan isn't the only country in Asia that has been forced to revisit its visa policies due to Chinese abuse. For example, the Philippines has made changes and added oversight to its SRRV retirement visa program because of abuse by Chinese nationals, most of whom were younger males coming as "retirees" but working and running local businesses illegally. So yes, immigration is a sensitive, complicated subject in Japan but you're reading way too much into the changes to the business manager visa.
  - aurareturn 4mo ago
    Japan continues to "import" larger and larger numbers of foreign workers to do jobs that it doesn't have enough native-born workers to perform. Think factory workers, nurses, truck drivers, retail. This is the exact thing I'm talking about. Good for business owners and government. Complicated for working class Japanese people.
    - ElProlactin 4mo ago
      > Complicated for working class Japanese people. It's complicated from a cultural perspective because Japanese are fiercely proud and protective of their culture and, many would argue, xenophobic. It is not complicated from an economic perspective. There simply aren't enough working-age Japanese to fill these roles. As Japan ages, it is already struggling to maintain critical services, such as caretaking for the elderly. Without immigration, it would eventually face economy-stopping labor shortages. The tension is between Japan's demographic reality and economic needs, and its idealistic cultural/religious/historical beliefs. You cannot maintain the world's fifth-largest economy with a population that has lost 3 million people in the past 5 years that is losing somewhere between 250-500,000 working age people a year and will have more than 40% of its population over 60 by 2030. And, I would argue, you cannot maintain a belief system structured around the ideas of genetic, cultural and historical superiority when you've had a fertility rate below the replacement rate since 1974. This doesn't mean that Japan should open the gates to unchecked immigration (there are practical reasons it can't anyway) but having spent a good deal of time there I feel OK to say: Japan is dying and people need to accept it so that they can address it.
neverbehind 4mo ago
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by mmooss 4mo ago

aurareturn 4mo ago

I'm explaining why Japan is doing this. A lot of people don't understand why Japan would do this when their population is already declining. It's because to the working class, a declining population isn't the most pressing issue. In fact, some of them may even want that because it means more resources to everyone else. Mass importing immigrants causes many issues for locals. Anyone who denies this is simply virtue signaling. To businesses and governments, a declining population means lower market size and lower tax income. They're incentivized to want a larger population - sometimes by any means necessary. And no, you can't mass import high quality immigrants because high quality immigrants have options and generally don't want to move to a country that isn't their culture or speak their own language. You will always end up with lower quality immigrants from the 3rd world.

mmooss 4mo ago
> Anyone who denies this is simply virtue signaling. Dismissing other opinions in words but not arguments is vacuous. Fabricating and attacking their motives is more evidence (not fabrication) that the argument is nothing but bias plastered over with empty words. So is the parroting of the talking points of some social tide. > quality Human beings are not low quality or high quality - and especially not based on your preference or personal benefit - and economics and history clearly show the benefit of more people with freedom and opportunity, including to the people gaining freedom and opportunity. They are as important as, and have as much 'quality' as you - otherwise, you are not important either.
- aurareturn 4mo ago
  Dismissing other opinions in words but not arguments is vacuous. Meanwhile, you dismissed the will of Japanese people as "hateful" for not wanting more immigrants.
  - mmooss 4mo ago
    More of the standard rhetoric. It's like an algorithm generating these comments or an LLM. It just responds with copypasta without even knowing what I said.
ElProlactin 4mo ago
I'm sorry but you're spewing a lot of misinformation here. Japan's relationship with immigration is complex but what you're talking about really has nothing to do with the business manager visa. Japan continues to "import" larger and larger numbers of foreign workers to do jobs that it doesn't have enough native-born workers to perform. Think factory workers, nurses, truck drivers, retail. The problem with the business manager visa was that it was being abused by people who weren't actually running real businesses in Japan. They were setting up shells to obtain residency. Much of the abuse was by Chinese nationals, which was for obvious reasons especially disturbing to Japanese given the history between the two countries. Japan isn't the only country in Asia that has been forced to revisit its visa policies due to Chinese abuse. For example, the Philippines has made changes and added oversight to its SRRV retirement visa program because of abuse by Chinese nationals, most of whom were younger males coming as "retirees" but working and running local businesses illegally. So yes, immigration is a sensitive, complicated subject in Japan but you're reading way too much into the changes to the business manager visa.
- aurareturn 4mo ago
  Japan continues to "import" larger and larger numbers of foreign workers to do jobs that it doesn't have enough native-born workers to perform. Think factory workers, nurses, truck drivers, retail. This is the exact thing I'm talking about. Good for business owners and government. Complicated for working class Japanese people.
  - ElProlactin 4mo ago
    > Complicated for working class Japanese people. It's complicated from a cultural perspective because Japanese are fiercely proud and protective of their culture and, many would argue, xenophobic. It is not complicated from an economic perspective. There simply aren't enough working-age Japanese to fill these roles. As Japan ages, it is already struggling to maintain critical services, such as caretaking for the elderly. Without immigration, it would eventually face economy-stopping labor shortages. The tension is between Japan's demographic reality and economic needs, and its idealistic cultural/religious/historical beliefs. You cannot maintain the world's fifth-largest economy with a population that has lost 3 million people in the past 5 years that is losing somewhere between 250-500,000 working age people a year and will have more than 40% of its population over 60 by 2030. And, I would argue, you cannot maintain a belief system structured around the ideas of genetic, cultural and historical superiority when you've had a fertility rate below the replacement rate since 1974. This doesn't mean that Japan should open the gates to unchecked immigration (there are practical reasons it can't anyway) but having spent a good deal of time there I feel OK to say: Japan is dying and people need to accept it so that they can address it.

neverbehind 4mo ago

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