5 ms·

I'm aware. How is this relevant to the posted article?

by klausa 4mo ago

embedding-shape 4mo ago
The article is about (from the eyes of a user) white-labeled usage of Claude models on Apple devices, this subthread is about white-labeled usage of LLMs on Apple devices, how is it not relevant?
- klausa 4mo ago
  Because that's not what the article is about; this is about a unified API for the _app developers_ to access different kind of models. That API has no user-facing components, and has no influence over UX of what the end-users are interacting with. The users won't know if you used Foundation Models API or integrated with OpenAI/Anthropic/Gemini SDK directly.
  - embedding-shape 4mo ago
    > The users won't know if you used Foundation Models API or integrated with OpenAI/Anthropic/Gemini SDK directly. That's the point! That's the whole "white-labeling" part, and what the commentator earlier is talking about. You're very close in understanding the context here!
    - klausa 4mo ago
      I’m sorry, so your position now is that “being completely invisible to the users” is “controlling the UX”?
      - embedding-shape 4mo ago
        I think you're taking the written words a bit too literally here. Read it with a more lax filter and less literal word-meaning, and I think the original comment will become a bit clearer.
        klausa 4mo ago
        You know what, I've been a bit too snipe-y in my previous comments, and it led to to discussion devolving in unproductive ways. I'd genuinely like to understand where you're coming from more. I think we're all in agreement that this framework is very much about letting developers swap the models easily, and treat them as commodities. That seems pretty obvious. I do however still don't see how this has anything to do with controlling the UX (or the new Siri for that matter! The new Siri doesn't use Anthropic models, and there are no extensions point for it to do so — that's pretty much the whole reason why it won't be available in the EU). Help me see your point of view!
        geodel 4mo ago
        I don't know if it helps. One way to look at it is branding product. Apple is branding the product. So they supposedly have more value to customers as it stands for quality, awareness, trust etc. As oppose to 100 little components in computer which maybe from different brands, and Apple may switch brand year to year without user noticing. So those components makers have little power over Apple. Same is happening to Claude software package as it would stand behind branded Apple foundation models. From pure software developer thinking this is exactly what Claude offered here so where is the issue? Issue is in larger space where Apple could take steps to block Claude out of their ecosystem if they so wish at some point and there is little Claude / Anthropic would do if Apple Foundation is the only thing that Apple consumers would know about.
        klausa 4mo ago
        That framing would make sense to me if the thing being discussed was Apple letting _end users_ somehow access Claude models white-labeled as "Apple Foundation Model", sure? Or even letting _developers_ access Apple-hosted Claude or something? But this is very much _not_ what this is. Apple showed a bunch of new APIs at WWDC last week. One of this is a way for a developers to interact with LLM's in a way that let's you easily swap out models (with a bunch of other niceties around it), including swapping between on-device and remote models. This is _Anthropic_ (not Apple!) shipping their support for that framework, so you can also switch between different Anthropic models using the same APIs you'd use to swap between a local or PCC model. I expect OpenAI will probably ship their shims in the next couple of weeks too? (You can probably vibe-code one in half an hour if you point Codex at the Anthropic one, tbh). (Apple also doesn't use "Apple Foundation Model" anywhere in the user-facing marketing materials AFAICT, this is strictly developer facing terminology, but I could be wrong?) My impression is that people are _wildly_ misunderstanding what this _actually_ is, and running wild with speculation/interpretation.
      - kcb 4mo ago
        It's Apple, so it's some revolutionary big brained play, and not just yet another llm sdk.
      - butlike 4mo ago
        I can't reply to your child comment for whatever reason, but Siri is part of the Apple Foundation Models framework. The idea is that no matter what backend the developer uses, the end user will always say "Hey Siri." This is analogous to controlling the UX. Siri is independent of whichever model the app developer uses.
        klausa 4mo ago
        No, Siri is entirely separate from this framework. Are you thinking about Intents? That lets Siri interact with data (and perform some actions in them) from your apps, but it is something completely different. You can definitely expose things from your app via Intents that will end up calling an external arbitrary LLM somewhere, but it does not require using Foundation Models API whatsoever.
      - deleted 4mo ago
        [deleted]

I'm aware. How is this relevant to the posted article?

by klausa 4mo ago

I'm aware. How is this relevant to the posted article?

The article is about (from the eyes of a user) white-labeled usage of Claude models on Apple devices, this subthread is about white-labeled usage of LLMs on Apple devices, how is it not relevant?

klausa 4mo ago
Because that's not what the article is about; this is about a unified API for the _app developers_ to access different kind of models. That API has no user-facing components, and has no influence over UX of what the end-users are interacting with. The users won't know if you used Foundation Models API or integrated with OpenAI/Anthropic/Gemini SDK directly.
- embedding-shape 4mo ago
  > The users won't know if you used Foundation Models API or integrated with OpenAI/Anthropic/Gemini SDK directly. That's the point! That's the whole "white-labeling" part, and what the commentator earlier is talking about. You're very close in understanding the context here!
  - klausa 4mo ago
    I’m sorry, so your position now is that “being completely invisible to the users” is “controlling the UX”?
    - embedding-shape 4mo ago
      I think you're taking the written words a bit too literally here. Read it with a more lax filter and less literal word-meaning, and I think the original comment will become a bit clearer.
      - klausa 4mo ago
        You know what, I've been a bit too snipe-y in my previous comments, and it led to to discussion devolving in unproductive ways. I'd genuinely like to understand where you're coming from more. I think we're all in agreement that this framework is very much about letting developers swap the models easily, and treat them as commodities. That seems pretty obvious. I do however still don't see how this has anything to do with controlling the UX (or the new Siri for that matter! The new Siri doesn't use Anthropic models, and there are no extensions point for it to do so — that's pretty much the whole reason why it won't be available in the EU). Help me see your point of view!
        geodel 4mo ago
        I don't know if it helps. One way to look at it is branding product. Apple is branding the product. So they supposedly have more value to customers as it stands for quality, awareness, trust etc. As oppose to 100 little components in computer which maybe from different brands, and Apple may switch brand year to year without user noticing. So those components makers have little power over Apple. Same is happening to Claude software package as it would stand behind branded Apple foundation models. From pure software developer thinking this is exactly what Claude offered here so where is the issue? Issue is in larger space where Apple could take steps to block Claude out of their ecosystem if they so wish at some point and there is little Claude / Anthropic would do if Apple Foundation is the only thing that Apple consumers would know about.
        klausa 4mo ago
        That framing would make sense to me if the thing being discussed was Apple letting _end users_ somehow access Claude models white-labeled as "Apple Foundation Model", sure? Or even letting _developers_ access Apple-hosted Claude or something? But this is very much _not_ what this is. Apple showed a bunch of new APIs at WWDC last week. One of this is a way for a developers to interact with LLM's in a way that let's you easily swap out models (with a bunch of other niceties around it), including swapping between on-device and remote models. This is _Anthropic_ (not Apple!) shipping their support for that framework, so you can also switch between different Anthropic models using the same APIs you'd use to swap between a local or PCC model. I expect OpenAI will probably ship their shims in the next couple of weeks too? (You can probably vibe-code one in half an hour if you point Codex at the Anthropic one, tbh). (Apple also doesn't use "Apple Foundation Model" anywhere in the user-facing marketing materials AFAICT, this is strictly developer facing terminology, but I could be wrong?) My impression is that people are _wildly_ misunderstanding what this _actually_ is, and running wild with speculation/interpretation.
    - kcb 4mo ago
      It's Apple, so it's some revolutionary big brained play, and not just yet another llm sdk.
    - butlike 4mo ago
      I can't reply to your child comment for whatever reason, but Siri is part of the Apple Foundation Models framework. The idea is that no matter what backend the developer uses, the end user will always say "Hey Siri." This is analogous to controlling the UX. Siri is independent of whichever model the app developer uses.
      - klausa 4mo ago
        No, Siri is entirely separate from this framework. Are you thinking about Intents? That lets Siri interact with data (and perform some actions in them) from your apps, but it is something completely different. You can definitely expose things from your app via Intents that will end up calling an external arbitrary LLM somewhere, but it does not require using Foundation Models API whatsoever.
    - deleted 4mo ago
      [deleted]