8 ms·

Yes, that’s the dilemma of the rich countries. They want their life be taken care by the people they don’t want around and if they have to have them around they

by mrtksn 4mo ago

Yes, that’s the dilemma of the rich countries. They want their life be taken care by the people they don’t want around and if they have to have them around they want them be the kids from people from their kind but not theirs. It’s a special kind of NIMBY, not necessarily xenophobia. More like a class thing, they want other rich people’s kids do the shitty jobs so they don’t have to have these poor people doing the jobs and hanging around. It’s first “I don’t want illegal immigrants”, when the immigration is legal they start doing things like take back control(UK) or sustainability (Swiss). What they should have done was unprotected heterosexual sex 20 years ago or robots now. I find it annoying that they screw other stuff just because they don’t want to face the truth about their character.

vladms 4mo ago
Probably the solutions mentioned (sex/robots) are not the only ones. Many complain loudly about what might be a minority of the workers, so just knowing more people would have improved their opinion. Others do not have anything better to do, and they pick up this type of "crusades" with low impact on them, but big impact on others. But yes, probably an improved psychology (in terms of understanding yourself, trying to learn, be curious, etc), would fix a lot, still feels like a daunting task anywhere in the world.
lotsofpulp 4mo ago
>What they should have done was unprotected heterosexual sex 20 years ago Unprotected heterosexual sex and births were decoupled 55 years ago. Almost as tenuous is the link between births and well raised children who can and will provide the labor that is wanted.
Saline9515 4mo ago
They don't want their son to do it because immigrants prevent the salaries of those jobs to rise naturally. Mass immigration is capitalism's answer to the Baumol law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect The "locals don't want to do those jobs" comptemptuous rethoric of the bourgeois left has always been false, locals don't want to clean the sewers for the minimal wage, but will do it for a proper salary. My grandfather was a cook in Paris, he was making a decent wage and could buy a summer house back then. Now the restaurant where he used to work has a Sri Lankan who works for half the minimum wage (half of his hours are undeclared) and lives in a slum to save on housing costs. Yeah, locals don't want to live like slaves, so what? Is that the end state that we must reach through mass immigration?
- optimalsolver 4mo ago
  I find it hard to believe the kids of the Swiss elite would be cleaning sewers if not for the low pay.
  - joe_mamba 4mo ago
    Switzerland has onlite elite kids? What do all the Swiss with <80 IQ do for a living? They're probably not gonna get a job at ABB, Google, UBS or ETH.
  - mrtksn 4mo ago
    No no, they would have totally done it if the immigrants didn’t suppress the wages and the pay was %15 higher. Now they need to do some office jobs for 5 times the pay since the unemployment rate is %3. There are no Swiss sitting around and not cleaning the sewers because the pay was too low, it will have to fetch workers from other industries.
    - Larrikin 4mo ago
      Immigrants do not suppress wages, business owners do. The solution there is the same solution as the US. If the US introduced a (for example) 4x median salary fine for every year an employer employed someone not legally eligible to work the problem would fix itself. If they did not keep records assume 5 years or whenever the person's visa expired, since that is the most common case of illegal immigration. But the businesses WANT a class of people they can underpay who can't gain access easily to legal services when the employer screws them over. If the people are employed legally and are being paid the minimum wage, then your complaint is with the government and you should elect people that will raise the minimum wage.
      - s1artibartfast 4mo ago
        This is the best argument in the thread against allowing immigration. That sounds awful. Better to avoid by keeping them out
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
dyauspitr 4mo ago
>More like a class thing, they want other rich people’s kids do the shitty jobs so they don’t have to have these poor people doing the jobs and hanging around. They don’t want the southern Europeans around. That’s textbook xenophobia.
- kensai 4mo ago
  Who told you that? Swiss don't even want Germans, which is actually the biggest minority apparently. FFS, Germans! The original racists. PS. I am German.
- mrtksn 4mo ago
  They don’t want the working class southern Europeans around, they don’t have problem with the rich southern Europeans. I wont call this xenophobia. Its just rich people annoyed by the poor hanging around outside the working hours. They often even like their poor people that do their things, they are actually annoyed by the other rich peoples employees or the kids of those employees who are seen as not as well behaved as theirs.
- throw1234567891 4mo ago
  They don’t want Germans around!
  - vrganj 4mo ago
    They don't mind Austrians tho. Germans are kind of disliked in the rest of DACH.
    - throw1234567891 4mo ago
      That one Austrian guy some time ago brought a lot of wealth to the Swiss. Who could blame them.
      - vrganj 4mo ago
        Well that one self-identified as German tbf.
FireBeyond 4mo ago
> Yes, that’s the dilemma of the rich countries. They want their life be taken care by the people they don’t want around and if they have to have them around they want them be the kids from people from their kind but not theirs. > It’s a special kind of NIMBY, not necessarily xenophobia. More like a class thing, they want other rich people’s kids do the shitty jobs so they don’t have to have these poor people doing the jobs and hanging around. And it can happen implicitly or explicitly. Witness Jackson Hole. None of the workers can afford to live there and the nearest towns are not close. So the residents arranged a coach service to bus the workers in. And at the end of the day, and out. Yes, to their homes, but best believe there is a very limited window of return coaches which leads to a feeling of almost a sundown town.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
ip26 4mo ago
[dead]
627467 4mo ago
> Yes, that’s the dilemma of the rich countries. Yeah, it's also not unusual system: just look at gulf countries, singapore, HK,... the problem is europeans themselves talked themselves into some kind of system that prevents them from following the same model. They still would love to though

by mrtksn 4mo ago

vladms 4mo ago

Probably the solutions mentioned (sex/robots) are not the only ones. Many complain loudly about what might be a minority of the workers, so just knowing more people would have improved their opinion. Others do not have anything better to do, and they pick up this type of "crusades" with low impact on them, but big impact on others. But yes, probably an improved psychology (in terms of understanding yourself, trying to learn, be curious, etc), would fix a lot, still feels like a daunting task anywhere in the world.

lotsofpulp 4mo ago

>What they should have done was unprotected heterosexual sex 20 years ago Unprotected heterosexual sex and births were decoupled 55 years ago. Almost as tenuous is the link between births and well raised children who can and will provide the labor that is wanted.

Saline9515 4mo ago

They don't want their son to do it because immigrants prevent the salaries of those jobs to rise naturally. Mass immigration is capitalism's answer to the Baumol law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect The "locals don't want to do those jobs" comptemptuous rethoric of the bourgeois left has always been false, locals don't want to clean the sewers for the minimal wage, but will do it for a proper salary. My grandfather was a cook in Paris, he was making a decent wage and could buy a summer house back then. Now the restaurant where he used to work has a Sri Lankan who works for half the minimum wage (half of his hours are undeclared) and lives in a slum to save on housing costs. Yeah, locals don't want to live like slaves, so what? Is that the end state that we must reach through mass immigration?

optimalsolver 4mo ago
I find it hard to believe the kids of the Swiss elite would be cleaning sewers if not for the low pay.
- joe_mamba 4mo ago
  Switzerland has onlite elite kids? What do all the Swiss with <80 IQ do for a living? They're probably not gonna get a job at ABB, Google, UBS or ETH.
- mrtksn 4mo ago
  No no, they would have totally done it if the immigrants didn’t suppress the wages and the pay was %15 higher. Now they need to do some office jobs for 5 times the pay since the unemployment rate is %3. There are no Swiss sitting around and not cleaning the sewers because the pay was too low, it will have to fetch workers from other industries.
  - Larrikin 4mo ago
    Immigrants do not suppress wages, business owners do. The solution there is the same solution as the US. If the US introduced a (for example) 4x median salary fine for every year an employer employed someone not legally eligible to work the problem would fix itself. If they did not keep records assume 5 years or whenever the person's visa expired, since that is the most common case of illegal immigration. But the businesses WANT a class of people they can underpay who can't gain access easily to legal services when the employer screws them over. If the people are employed legally and are being paid the minimum wage, then your complaint is with the government and you should elect people that will raise the minimum wage.
    - s1artibartfast 4mo ago
      This is the best argument in the thread against allowing immigration. That sounds awful. Better to avoid by keeping them out

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

dyauspitr 4mo ago

>More like a class thing, they want other rich people’s kids do the shitty jobs so they don’t have to have these poor people doing the jobs and hanging around. They don’t want the southern Europeans around. That’s textbook xenophobia.

kensai 4mo ago
Who told you that? Swiss don't even want Germans, which is actually the biggest minority apparently. FFS, Germans! The original racists. PS. I am German.
mrtksn 4mo ago
They don’t want the working class southern Europeans around, they don’t have problem with the rich southern Europeans. I wont call this xenophobia. Its just rich people annoyed by the poor hanging around outside the working hours. They often even like their poor people that do their things, they are actually annoyed by the other rich peoples employees or the kids of those employees who are seen as not as well behaved as theirs.
throw1234567891 4mo ago
They don’t want Germans around!
- vrganj 4mo ago
  They don't mind Austrians tho. Germans are kind of disliked in the rest of DACH.
  - throw1234567891 4mo ago
    That one Austrian guy some time ago brought a lot of wealth to the Swiss. Who could blame them.
    - vrganj 4mo ago
      Well that one self-identified as German tbf.

FireBeyond 4mo ago

> Yes, that’s the dilemma of the rich countries. They want their life be taken care by the people they don’t want around and if they have to have them around they want them be the kids from people from their kind but not theirs. > It’s a special kind of NIMBY, not necessarily xenophobia. More like a class thing, they want other rich people’s kids do the shitty jobs so they don’t have to have these poor people doing the jobs and hanging around. And it can happen implicitly or explicitly. Witness Jackson Hole. None of the workers can afford to live there and the nearest towns are not close. So the residents arranged a coach service to bus the workers in. And at the end of the day, and out. Yes, to their homes, but best believe there is a very limited window of return coaches which leads to a feeling of almost a sundown town.

deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]

ip26 4mo ago

[dead]

627467 4mo ago

> Yes, that’s the dilemma of the rich countries. Yeah, it's also not unusual system: just look at gulf countries, singapore, HK,... the problem is europeans themselves talked themselves into some kind of system that prevents them from following the same model. They still would love to though