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If the argument is going to be “I exerted negotiation leverage over you” I think this feeds into my argument about the immorality of the whole setup. We might

If the argument is going to be “I exerted negotiation leverage over you” I think this feeds into my argument about the immorality of the whole setup. We might as well just say “I exploited my structural power over my employees and got a better deal for myself.” Of course the employees agreed to the deal presented to them, what other option did they have? They aren’t like all these founders that have the luxury of being unemployed because their dad will pay the rent. That’s another point I forgot to bring up entirely: PG also hand-waved over the quantity of billionaires from his accelerator that came from families of very decent means where they have the luxury of risking failure. The quantity of true rags to riches billionaires is extremely slim.

csallen 5mo ago
> Of course the employees agreed to the deal presented to them, what other option did they have? What? The employees had infinity other options! They could have negotiated harder. They could have declined the job. They could have taken a job somewhere else. They could have taken the risk to start their own startup, and been in the founder position, instead of choosing to be in the employee position and getting the security and reduced stress that comes along with it. > That’s another point I forgot to bring up entirely: PG also hand-waved over the quantity of billionaires from his accelerator that came from families of very decent means where they have the luxury of risking failure. The quantity of true rags to riches billionaires is extremely slim. Over 200M Americans come from middle class backgrounds are above. YC also provides founders with the funds to pay themselves while they start their company. I did YC when I had almost $0 to my name and no well-off family to rely on.
- stanleykm 5mo ago
  youre not going to negotiate your way to 40% ownership of the company with a strike price of $0.00001
  - csallen 5mo ago
    Then go start your own company?
    - stanleykm 5mo ago
      you have completely drank the kool aid
      - csallen 5mo ago
        Why do you expect outsized rewards without taking outsized risks? Companies don't start themselves.
        deleted 5mo ago
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        Grombobulous 5mo ago
        I totally recognize what you’re saying. We have to be able to encourage risk-taking if we want to have innovation. I get it. But you said earlier that YC pays founders for living expenses. What risk are YC founders taking? In contrast, every startup I’ve worked at has offered equity in the form of options where I had to stake my personal finances just to own company equity. None of them granted shares to me as a reward for my labor. I was taking more of a financial risk than the founder of the company just to own a stake! VC-backed Startups are much different than small businesses where founders take personal financial risks. The VC itself is also not taking any kind of outsized risk as it has mitigated that risk by betting on dozens of companies. They expect most of their companies to fail and leave their employees high and dry, but that’s not their problem and is baked into the formula. Essentially VCs have plenty of capital and no ideas, so they pay outsized equity compensation to founders for ideas. But the early employees are just interchangeable implementers and get basically nothing by comparison. If I started a cupcake truck with my friends, they wouldn’t be my friends anymore if I decided I get 50x their equity stake just because it was my idea. In my opinion, our business systems have been allowed to get away with much more inequality than should be legal. Each caste is orders of magnitude away from each other rather than being linear steps above each other.

csallen 5mo ago

> Of course the employees agreed to the deal presented to them, what other option did they have? What? The employees had infinity other options! They could have negotiated harder. They could have declined the job. They could have taken a job somewhere else. They could have taken the risk to start their own startup, and been in the founder position, instead of choosing to be in the employee position and getting the security and reduced stress that comes along with it. > That’s another point I forgot to bring up entirely: PG also hand-waved over the quantity of billionaires from his accelerator that came from families of very decent means where they have the luxury of risking failure. The quantity of true rags to riches billionaires is extremely slim. Over 200M Americans come from middle class backgrounds are above. YC also provides founders with the funds to pay themselves while they start their company. I did YC when I had almost $0 to my name and no well-off family to rely on.

stanleykm 5mo ago
youre not going to negotiate your way to 40% ownership of the company with a strike price of $0.00001
- csallen 5mo ago
  Then go start your own company?
  - stanleykm 5mo ago
    you have completely drank the kool aid
    - csallen 5mo ago
      Why do you expect outsized rewards without taking outsized risks? Companies don't start themselves.
      - deleted 5mo ago
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      - Grombobulous 5mo ago
        I totally recognize what you’re saying. We have to be able to encourage risk-taking if we want to have innovation. I get it. But you said earlier that YC pays founders for living expenses. What risk are YC founders taking? In contrast, every startup I’ve worked at has offered equity in the form of options where I had to stake my personal finances just to own company equity. None of them granted shares to me as a reward for my labor. I was taking more of a financial risk than the founder of the company just to own a stake! VC-backed Startups are much different than small businesses where founders take personal financial risks. The VC itself is also not taking any kind of outsized risk as it has mitigated that risk by betting on dozens of companies. They expect most of their companies to fail and leave their employees high and dry, but that’s not their problem and is baked into the formula. Essentially VCs have plenty of capital and no ideas, so they pay outsized equity compensation to founders for ideas. But the early employees are just interchangeable implementers and get basically nothing by comparison. If I started a cupcake truck with my friends, they wouldn’t be my friends anymore if I decided I get 50x their equity stake just because it was my idea. In my opinion, our business systems have been allowed to get away with much more inequality than should be legal. Each caste is orders of magnitude away from each other rather than being linear steps above each other.