4 ms·
Quite interesting to see that measles is coming back. I suppose there is a notion of generational memory. Two generations out, people forget what the world was
by arjie 5mo ago
Quite interesting to see that measles is coming back. I suppose there is a notion of generational memory. Two generations out, people forget what the world was like. Forgetting like this on a civilizational level is probably adaptive unless it’s catastrophic and a measles epidemic is eminently survivable as a civilization if incredibly tragic for the families affected.
I had measles as a child, too. Fortunately, my parents are doctors and I was well cared for and nature was good to me as well. So here I am, pretty much fine. I’d rather have not had the disease, all things told. Incredibly contagious disease. I was in the room with the other sick child for only a few moments.
- chasil 5mo agoIt erases immune memory, taking away antibodies to recently exposed diseases. It's best not to get it.
- selectodude 5mo agoAnd there’s a non-zero chance that it lives dormant in your brain and you die several years later. Absolutely bonkers.
- throwa356262 5mo agoWait, measles erases antibody memory? First of all, this is scary. Secondly, I wonder if it hase the same effect on autoimmune disease?
- mrtesthah 5mo agoMeasles infections can trigger the following autoimmune diseases: * Type 1 diabetes * Multiple sclerosis * Rheumatoid arthritis
- madaxe_again 5mo agoIt can. It’s not common, from what I understand, but there are cases where it has put various autoimmune disorders into remission, either temporary, or permanent. That said, you become far more likely to end up sick with a whole bunch of other stuff, which can then eliminate any benefits for the autoimmune disorders. Oh, and there’s also a chance it will give you an autoimmune disorder. Absolute bastard, if you ask me.
- chasil 5mo agoIt destroys memory B-cells. "Once the measles virus contacts the mucosa lining the respiratory tract, it binds to SLAM (signaling lymphocyte activation molecule, also known as CD150) on the surface of macrophages and dendritic cells. These cells then take up the virus... These immune cells pass the virus on to other groups of immune cells, including B cells, T cells, thymocytes, and hematopoietic stem cells, which disseminate the virus to other organs during the incubation period. "Immune amnesia "The measles virus can deplete previously acquired immune memory by killing cells that make antibodies, and thus weakens the immune system, which can cause deaths from other diseases. Suppression of the immune system by measles lasts about two years and has been epidemiologically implicated in an increase in childhood mortality from other infectious diseases during this period. The measles vaccine contains an attenuated strain of the virus which does not deplete immune memory." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles
- alfiedotwtf 5mo agoIt’s crazy that in the past year, I’ve been hearing MAGA hold measles parties yikes!
- guilhas 5mo agoSuch a serious effect I would expect tons of research on it. And being commonly known But it is a seemingly new symptom being attributed to measles Between that and doctors refusing to diagnose long covid or lyme disease. Which have a much bigger link to immune disorders One would think someone is trying to muddy the waters. Or accidentally misattributing
- flawn 5mo agoWhat is the evolutionary advantage of this? I mean, if the host dies subsequently that's pretty bad for both parties, or?
- fhdkweig 5mo agoIf it can spread before killing the host, it has done its job (evolutionarily speaking).
- californical 5mo agoSometimes, even usually, evolution finds a “local maximum” of effectiveness. Where the solution an organism finds is not optimal but it’s good enough for the organism to survive, even win. So yeah I’m sure evolution didn’t create something perfect in the disease here but it survives long enough, and kills few-enough people slowly enough in the wild to survive
- cjmcqueen 5mo agoViruses don't care if the host dies. Evolution doesn't explain all things in nature.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- lightbulbish 5mo agoEvolution theory by itself doesn’t give us the ability to explain everything in a certain moment, but that’s only due to lack of knowledge on our part. Consider that measles in itself comes originally from a animal but a mutation found itself be able to spread to humans. That, in and of itself, is the process of evolution. So while it is not necessarily a useful lens to try to interpret a moment in time as many unknown factors are at play (for example the same gene that is important for mortality might also impact survival in certain environments, and therefore how contagious it could be), if we were to understand it’s history of every mutation that came and went, the environments it lived in, evolution theory would explain why the path looked like it did. And subsequently why it is like it is today.
- bryanlarsen 5mo agoAnd by "it" you mean measles? Or do you mean the vaccine? Completely reverses the message of your post!
- WarOnPrivacy 5mo ago> And by "it" you mean measles? Yes. They mean that measles "erases immune memory, taking away antibodies to recently exposed diseases.". The grandparent was discussing their measles experience and the parent was responding to that.
- madaxe_again 5mo agoIt seems like there’s a pretty strong parallel with the failure of the screw worm eradication programme. It just became a thing we did, rather than the absolute miracle it was - like vaccination - and then from complacency grows suspicion, for again, as you say, few people alive remember how it was.
- Avshalom 5mo agoWell the screw worm thing happened because Elon Musk hired a bunch of twitter nazis to put the government through a wood chipper. This is the end result of decades snake oil moguls empowered by orin hatch and then turbo charged by people being furious that they weren't allowed to go to TGI Fridays for six months.
- WarOnPrivacy 5mo ago> This is the end result of decades snake oil moguls empowered by orin hatch What did Hatch do (I mostly know him as the paid servant of the copyright industry)?
- cptroot 5mo agoThis is likely about Orin Hatch's dedication to the idea of a "balanced federal budget", to be paid for with program cuts instead of taxation.
- Avshalom 5mo agoOh no, he's just straight up the guy that keeps it legal to sell cyanide-rich apricot kernels as anti-cancer meds* *statement not evaluated by the FDA
- Avshalom 5mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Supplement_Health_and_Education_Act_of_1994 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Supplement_Health_and_...
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- jancsika 5mo ago> Quite interesting to see. No, the article is a shitshow. Ben Dowse is an MD, not a pediatric nurse. The family ended up accepting the antibody treatment before leaving the hospital. The Daily Mail article bizarrely implies that they never accepted the treatment. Both journalistic mistakes are clear from reading the beginning of the Wired article linked in the error-laden Daily Mail article. Did you notice these errors?
- entuno 5mo agoThe Daily Mail is a trashy tabloid, so it's not surprising. Weird to see it posted here as though it's a credible source for anything.
- arjie 5mo agoI did not notice those. And it's my fault for not looking at the Daily Mail critically by looking one level deeper. I should know better than this since this is something I complain about, and also I am aware the DM is rarely accurate. I suppose it aligned with my previous knowledge that we are on the verge of losing herd immunity in much of the anglophone world: https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/2016217002008809982?s=20 https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status/2016217002008809982?s=2... Thanks for contradicting. I do think it's interesting that herd immunity is failing, but the linked piece itself is not very good, agreed. Amending now to make it clear I don't think it's that the article is interesting.
- Arodex 5mo agoIt is not "generational memory", it is an active campaign of lies and FUD by crooks, grifters and idiots.
- petilon 5mo agoIt is not lies if Mr. Kennedy actually believes vaccines are harmful. Idiot, yes. Liar, no.
- estebank 5mo agoSufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice.
- masklinn 5mo agoI would say generational memory is a factor, if you've seen an uncle or a grandparent who'd had polio, or you're old enough that measles was a thing in your youth, and you've seen these ailments disappear over your lifetime, the lies and FUD will have a much harder time taking root. If these ailments are completely abstract in both their scope and personal effects, it's easier to be convinced by emotional manipulators. Especially if you're part of the... let's say low empathy population.
- enaaem 5mo agoLook at COVID conspiracies. We literally had images of patients in the hospital parking, because the hospital could not handle the tsunami of severe infections, but there are still people who believe that we should have let it rip.
- pavlov 5mo ago> “Two generations out, people forget what the world was like. Forgetting like this on a civilizational level is probably adaptive” We are forgetting the lessons of WWII, and the world is now stocked with thousands of nuclear weapons each hundreds of times more powerful than Hiroshima. I don’t think we as a civilization can afford this kind of amnesiac adaptation anymore.
- bryanlarsen 5mo agoWe've also lost everybody who remembers the lessons of the 30's. There's a saying that people get more conservative as they age. But the Greatest Generation, those that experienced the 30's and WW2 tended in the opposite direction, voting more left as they aged.