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> Investment gains are not work Say, for example, my job is allocating capital across the S&P 500. My work is picking the stocks, the fruits of my labour are
by Ntrails 4mo ago
> Investment gains are not work
Say, for example, my job is allocating capital across the S&P 500. My work is picking the stocks, the fruits of my labour are excess returns.
Are those excess returns not work? What are they?
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- saghm 4mo ago> Are those excess returns not work? What are they? Wealth extracted from a market, which is what the parent commenter said in the first place
- twoodfin 4mo agoWhat do you mean “extracted”? The wealth is sitting there in his 401(k) being risked through (highly) fractional ownership of various publicly traded business ventures.
- saghm 4mo agoI mean "not earned through work", as evidenced by your description of it "as as sitting there". Risk isn't the same as work.
- zarathustreal 4mo agoDo you think “work” means literally “manual labor”?
- well_ackshually 4mo agoWork means the creation of things. Clicking on stocks for your 401k is not working.
- zarathustreal 4mo agoThe counter-examples are so obvious it makes me feel that pointing them out wouldn’t actually help you understand reality
- ForHackernews 4mo agoThe counter-examples are so obvious you didn't feel the need to cite even one? Please provide an example of how logging in to fidelity.com to see that today my net worth increased by a multiple of my annual salary constitutes "work". Define your terms so it's clear to readers.
- twoodfin 4mo agoIf I spend 30 minutes this week looking at my investments, but a fund manager spends 60 hours, that’s a difference in quality and quantity not kind.
- ForHackernews 4mo agoFund managers are paid to do a job by the owners of capital. Obviously that job is is work. The overwhelming majority of the gains accrue to the owners, and only a small fraction to the diligent fund manager who did the work. Are you sure you tried to come up with a counter example?
- twoodfin 4mo agoNow you’re just question-begging. If the only kind of “work” is “selling your labor” then sure, but I think a farmer tilling his own soil is “working”.
- thrance 4mo agoWork implies the creation of value: physical artifacts, services, or more generally, stuff that adds to the world. Capital gails isn't work, you're getting money without adding anything to the world.
- twoodfin 4mo agoWhat is being “extracted” from what? I described it as “sitting there” to contrast my viewpoint that in fact it’s not being “extracted” from anything as far as I can tell.
- inigyou 4mo agoSome Nvidia employees are making graphics cards, that cost $1000, and use $300 of materials, and being paid $200. $500 is being extracted from the value chain at that point and some of that is going to you because you own Nvidia stock.
- atq2119 4mo agoPart of it is work, yes. But consider. How much is your take home as a fund manager with 100M AUM? How much is your take home with 10B AUM? The work is the same, yet if the take home is different, you've proven that your income is not in fact earned through work in a moral sense.
- taffer 4mo ago> The work is the same, yet if the take home is different, you've proven that your income is not in fact earned through work in a moral sense. You could say the same about musicians and authors. Are they immoral as well?
- atq2119 4mo agoYes, the same is absolutely true for many other professions. And artists are probably more aware than most, at least on average, how much luck plays a role. But note that I have been very careful not to call the fund managers individually immoral.
- taffer 4mo agoI fail to see the moral problem with being able to write a book that millions or even billions of people can enjoy. To me that's a feature, not a bug.
- ForHackernews 4mo agoWork on your reading comprehension. The comment you're replying to specifically said they were not impugning the morality of artists or fund managers. Making great art is wonderful, but it's certainly not "work" the same way that digging a ditch or answering tech support calls is.
- taffer 4mo agoPlease respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. [1] I was talking specifically about the moral implications of books that can be read without any additional work from the author. This statement is about books, not authors. > but it's certainly not "work" the same way that digging a ditch I don't think so. Value comes from utility, not from toil. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- ForHackernews 4mo agoAre you good at picking stocks, or just lucky? How do you know? Say, for example, my job is allocating capital across the roulette wheel. My work is picking the numbers, the fruits of my labour are excess returns. Are those returns not work? What are they?
- hnthrow0287345 4mo ago>Are those excess returns not work? What are they? Normally you'd get a low percentage fee instead of getting all of the returns unless you got that capital for free (inheritance?), so yes, you are a worker compared to the person controlling the capital.
- inigyou 4mo agoSay I dig a hole and then fill it back in and dig a hole and fill it back in and make a mud pie then throw it on the ground and then a stranger gives me $100. Is that work?
- ForHackernews 4mo agoYou did something difficult and ultimately futile in exchange for money? Sounds like work to me.
- demorro 4mo agoWinnings.