4 ms·
To a much smaller extent due to where I live, I noticed this too. From merely the fact that I had a (local economy relative) high paying software job and that I
by ehnto 4mo ago
To a much smaller extent due to where I live, I noticed this too. From merely the fact that I had a (local economy relative) high paying software job and that I could "make stuff happen" for people with capital or people in the "boys club", I was introduced to an entirely different layer of the city I had no idea about. I noticed how effortlessly the signals transfer and how it all feels very meritocratic, you don't even notice the layer and you just see the people.
Until someone who's not in that layer shows up, and suddenly the doors close, the conversation chills and the barriers to the layer become evident.
I am very curious how this changes for young technologists in an AI era, where maybe non-technical people in this layer no longer see a self made technologist as a value add to their cohort.
I purposely use technologist over software developer, since I feelnthe generalist self-made developer typically commands an intuitive breadth of skills not just programming.
I also didn't make out like Zuck, though I am happily working and making games on the side.
- anal_reactor 4mo agoHonestly I do the reverse of that. I dress like shit and when introducing myself I specifically use the word "immigrant" rather than "expat" because signalling high social position attracts people who want something from me but don't offer anything in return.
- NathanielK 4mo agoNot surprised to hear this from anal_reactor.
- mc32 4mo agoimmigrants are people who tend to stay and don’t have plans to return to their home countries. Expats are temporary immigrants typically paid by their company to move and intend to move back to their home countries once the assignment is over.
- anal_reactor 4mo agoAin't nobody calling seasonal minimum-wage workers "expats".
- mc32 4mo agoTrue, but I'm talking about native English speakers. Those people likely have their own terminology in their own language to describe themselves. Also an ex-patriate is typically in the professional class. So those "English" teachers who teach in Japan, etc., may think of themselves as ex-pats or try to frequent "ex-pat" hangouts but they aren't necessarily because of two things: one, they have not been working at their home office and then transferred and typically they do not hold prelesional degrees -though they may hold "certificates" or whatever. They are in effect temporary workers on a limited stay visa, often needing annual renewal by hopping to a third country to have it renewed themselves. For ex-pats all this or arranged by their employers.
- anal_reactor 4mo ago"expat" is rich, "immigrant" is poor. People use the word "expat" to signal they're rich, or at least they want to be. Here, your theory goes out of the window.
- mc32 4mo agoSomeone from the US who moves to France for good is not an expat.
- freehorse 4mo agoLooking at online dictionaries there is no hint of temporariness [0], [1]. Wikipedia refers to it as "a person who resides outside their native country" and often referring to "a professional, skilled worker or artist from a wealthy country" [2], which matches exactly the way I see it used. Similar to other commenters here, I also mostly encounter it being used by skilled, first world professionals to separate themselves "from the plebs" of poorer immigrants. PS I do not disagree that some use cases could include temporariness (wikipedia mentions academic discourse and something about some british civil workers a few decades ago) but this is by far neither the unique nor the most common way it is used nowadays, nor how historically it has often been used long before. [0] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/expatriate https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/expat... [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expatriate https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expatriate [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriate
- i-hate-sexpats 4mo ago[flagged]
- cindyllm 4mo ago[dead]
- mc32 4mo agoPerhaps less visible but also more numerous are the guys from China who are too poor to afford the bridewealth who go to poor SEAsian countries to find their brides but also can frequent the hourly hotels that cater specifically to Japanese to Chinese clientele. Euros and N. Americans stand out due to their physical differences.
- mmarq 4mo ago“Expat” is how white well-off immigrants expect to be addressed to differentiate themselves from other immigrants.
- yieldcrv 4mo agoNot to this extreme but most people around me don’t know what I do for money or explore in unallocated time I’m fashionable and have a nice place but nothing says “software engineer that earns more than most doctors” People that wake up next to me think I earn about 1/3rd to 1/5th of what I earn, I don’t correct them But at the same time I do want just a little bit of the hypergamy. Unfortunately, broadcasting to that sentiment seems incompatible with staying low key and attracting more collaborative people, but it could be fun which is my goal. I’ve seen how doctors are treated in the attraction game, its strange and downright scary to see some people code switch around them to be seen as eligible mates, I could have that. I’ve been analyzing it and it has very little to do with perceived utility, and almost solely to do with perceived earning potential combined with the idea of other people wanting them. When I’ve spent extended time in small towns I inherit that treatment. In small towns across the US, you have people aspiring to hook up with entry level military conscripts because “they make so much money”. When you earn an entire order of magnitude more than that, it’s almost impossible to blend in and people can tell, so you get the code switching hypergamy sentiment. This is the closest parallel to what people are talking about in this thread, because I’m rarely networking. Recruiters reach out to me over email and linkedin and thats it. Do work, get paid, sign off.
- anal_reactor 4mo agoI'm gay so I have easy access to sex and TBH I don't really have much sex, almost nothing at all, because sex with most people just isn't pleasant. I cannot derive pleasure from it if there's no connection, and "wow I love your car" isn't connection.
- DiggyJohnson 4mo agoAs a straight male that does well with dating and relationships I am quietly fascinated by this aspect of gay culture and relationships. It changes so many dynamics. Thankful for the group of guys at our neighborhood bar where we play gays vs straights pool and rib about this stuff. Lol, just wanted to share that anecdote tbh
- yieldcrv 4mo ago
- DiggyJohnson 4mo agoI don’t see how this isn’t a massive net negative to you personally other than avoiding occasional odd conversation. You can have genuine conversations both personally and professionally with all sorts of people even if you don’t “dress like shit”. The expat versus immigrant thing is interesting but I assume most can see through that. Sorry to sound critical not really my intention but this is a very interesting approach. It makes the most sense if you’re already set in a great gig or already made your money, no?
- anal_reactor 4mo agoProgramming used to be attractive career exactly because you'd get a good job based on skills alone. There was no "you need to wear a suit to impress the client" bullshit: just show up, do a good day of honest work, go home with a fat paycheck. When you look at things from this perspective, signaling low-status also signals "I'm here because I can program", while signaling high-status also signals "I'm here to play office politics". So effectively, signaling low-status is a hidden signal that only other high-status people will recognize, while signaling high-status is a bluff that low-status people do. It seems a little complicated but the idea itself is nothing new. When you go to a ghetto you'll see golden chains, expensive cars and other shiny shit. Go to a upper-middle-class neighborhood and you'll see things that look ordinary but are expensive on closer inspection. Of course things have changed since then, but that's the gist.
- Der_Einzige 4mo agoThere's a reason it's called being "Anal Retentive"
- deterministic 4mo ago> people who want something from me but don't offer anything in return I see that as an opportunity to negotiate something in return from them. And if they refuse I simply move on.
- platz 4mo agowhat's an example of something you made happen
- lifestyleguru 4mo agoencrypted backup of media files which should become public in very specific circumstances
- platz 4mo agoyou made a funny
- mettamage 4mo ago[flagged]
- voidfunc 4mo agoYou know writing for brevity usually means you don't need to explain to your readers that you are writing for brevity...
- maccard 4mo agoThis is nonsense. It’s referrals for jobs that get filled before the JD is even posted, or discussions about what companies/people _actually_ want when they’re tendering projects. It’s tickets for sold out events, access to golf tee times or bookings that just aren’t available if you have to ask. Two examples from my life - a friend is a headhunter for tech companies. My last job was been him hitting me up before the job was advertised - I had met the hiring manager and booked an interview before they saw my CV or anyone else even applied to the job. There’s a major sporting event in my city every year and the tickets sell out within minutes every year, the good ones gone to season ticket holders years in advance. A colleague is a season ticket holder and not interested in that particular game so the last few years I’ve gotten his ticket for less than face value for the cheap seats.
- mettamage 4mo ago
- lifestyleguru 4mo agoTake me on your helicopter, Jeffrey.
- whattheheckheck 4mo agoHe was bragging about having a ti calculator in the 80s was seen as cool in that "interview" he filmed with Steve bannon
- hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 4mo ago[flagged]
- DiggyJohnson 4mo agoJust curious what part of the world you live in? Apologies if that seems like prying