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"The US government, citing national security authorities, has issued an export control directive to suspend all access to Fable 5 and Mythos 5 by any *foreign n

by spangry 4mo ago

"The US government, citing national security authorities, has issued an export control directive to suspend all access to Fable 5 and Mythos 5 by any *foreign national*, whether inside or outside the United States, including *foreign national* Anthropic employees." This press release is odd - it says that the export control was imposed to stop foreign nationals from using Fable / Mythos, and then goes on to talk about supposed concerns about jailbreaking the model. But is that really the concern of the US Administration? This looks more to me like they are viewing frontier models as a strategic asset which they want to keep for US-exclusive use. I can see the logic - if frontier models generally accelerate a society's technological development, then a country looking to retain or increase its strategic edge over other countries would try and keep this sort of multiplier for themselves. I'm guessing Anthropic shut of access for everyone because currently they have no reliable way to know whether a user is or is not a US citizen. In the near future we might be in a situation where you need to prove your US citizenship before Anthropic / Open AI will allow you to use their current frontier model.

koolala 4mo ago
Your defending the US Administration wanting ID verification built into our devices like going through airport security because you think they think it is 'pro-US'?
- spangry 4mo ago
  No, where did I say that? All I said was that I can see the logic - doesn't mean I agree with it. This policy sucks for me personally, as a non-US citizen.
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
  - koolala 4mo ago
    I see I got that impression by you saying their phrasing of the facts was 'odd'.
TIPSIO 4mo ago
> I'm guessing Anthropic shut of access for everyone because currently they have no reliable way to know whether a user is or is not a US citizen. They literally say this is why.
IndeanCondor 4mo ago
Based on all I know about Deemed Exports wrt software and current US controls on software Deemed Exports, your read is spot on. The phrasing of the foreign nationals implies a Deemed Export control, which is already in place for software for stuff like drones or space satcomms. If it's a Deemed Export control, it's a strategic position and not a knee jerk reaction about cybersecurity threats. It's a coherent read too; if Fable can solve coding and build biological weapons (X to doubt) - well then terminal guidance and autonomous drone controls should be a piece of cake for it and that software is already under Deemed Export restrictions.
- gmerc 4mo ago
  It’s not because of course it’s all vibed (what’s the criteria?) and we know it doesn’t work https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-54695598 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-54695598 As it stands there is no way to comply days before IPO and no effective remedy.
gmerc 4mo ago
The can’t comply even if they wanted to because employees: Most frontier staff is foreign origin. https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-54695598 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-54695598 And they just had their TAM killed days ahead of IPO.
- Wowfunhappy 4mo ago
  I, like, can't even imagine how they're dealing with this internally. Presumably Anthropic is using Mythos to train future models, but now many of their researchers can't use what they themselves created? Do they just need to stop work now?
  - potsandpans 4mo ago
    > We believe it would be good for the world to have the option to slow or temporarily pause frontier AI development to enable societal structures and alignment research to keep up with the advance of the technology. [1] First, I want to state up top that I don't personally agree with any legislation that seeks to ban or limit access to frontier llms. Having said that, it's difficult to not have a somewhat glib reaction to this news. Surely, if leadership believes what is written above then they are happy with this outcome. Ignoring all perverse incentives or potential market manipulation that might be going on from this current administration, on it's face it's a genies wish granted, "your models are so dangerous that the world should pause development? done. You may start pausing development." 1- https://www.anthropic.com/institute/recursive-self-improvement https://www.anthropic.com/institute/recursive-self-improveme...
    - s3p 4mo ago
      That is literally not at all what this regulation does. This regulation does not pause development. This is designed to make sure non-US citizens cannot do work with/on this model. This is stupid because Anthropic never once said this is what they wanted. They said there should be a global effort undertaken for everyone to take a coordinated approach to slowing down development. They never said "please please make it impossible for Anthropic to develop models while letting everybody else develop what they want"
danjc 4mo ago
Even if they could practically restrict access to US citizens only, I would expect them not to - it would be hard to regain that once lost and they need a global market for growth.
- Wowfunhappy 4mo ago
  > it would be hard to regain that once lost Harder than regaining the ability to sell access to the model at all?
charintstr 4mo ago
I find it most likely that this export ban means only USG has access to Mythos/Fable rn. Given the reports of NSA and DoD using Mythos it's now being given a near weapons-grade status by the government.

by spangry 4mo ago

koolala 4mo ago

Your defending the US Administration wanting ID verification built into our devices like going through airport security because you think they think it is 'pro-US'?

spangry 4mo ago
No, where did I say that? All I said was that I can see the logic - doesn't mean I agree with it. This policy sucks for me personally, as a non-US citizen.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- koolala 4mo ago
  I see I got that impression by you saying their phrasing of the facts was 'odd'.

TIPSIO 4mo ago

> I'm guessing Anthropic shut of access for everyone because currently they have no reliable way to know whether a user is or is not a US citizen. They literally say this is why.

IndeanCondor 4mo ago

Based on all I know about Deemed Exports wrt software and current US controls on software Deemed Exports, your read is spot on. The phrasing of the foreign nationals implies a Deemed Export control, which is already in place for software for stuff like drones or space satcomms. If it's a Deemed Export control, it's a strategic position and not a knee jerk reaction about cybersecurity threats. It's a coherent read too; if Fable can solve coding and build biological weapons (X to doubt) - well then terminal guidance and autonomous drone controls should be a piece of cake for it and that software is already under Deemed Export restrictions.

gmerc 4mo ago
It’s not because of course it’s all vibed (what’s the criteria?) and we know it doesn’t work https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-54695598 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-54695598 As it stands there is no way to comply days before IPO and no effective remedy.

gmerc 4mo ago

The can’t comply even if they wanted to because employees: Most frontier staff is foreign origin. https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-54695598 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-54695598 And they just had their TAM killed days ahead of IPO.

Wowfunhappy 4mo ago
I, like, can't even imagine how they're dealing with this internally. Presumably Anthropic is using Mythos to train future models, but now many of their researchers can't use what they themselves created? Do they just need to stop work now?
- potsandpans 4mo ago
  > We believe it would be good for the world to have the option to slow or temporarily pause frontier AI development to enable societal structures and alignment research to keep up with the advance of the technology. [1] First, I want to state up top that I don't personally agree with any legislation that seeks to ban or limit access to frontier llms. Having said that, it's difficult to not have a somewhat glib reaction to this news. Surely, if leadership believes what is written above then they are happy with this outcome. Ignoring all perverse incentives or potential market manipulation that might be going on from this current administration, on it's face it's a genies wish granted, "your models are so dangerous that the world should pause development? done. You may start pausing development." 1- https://www.anthropic.com/institute/recursive-self-improvement https://www.anthropic.com/institute/recursive-self-improveme...
  - s3p 4mo ago
    That is literally not at all what this regulation does. This regulation does not pause development. This is designed to make sure non-US citizens cannot do work with/on this model. This is stupid because Anthropic never once said this is what they wanted. They said there should be a global effort undertaken for everyone to take a coordinated approach to slowing down development. They never said "please please make it impossible for Anthropic to develop models while letting everybody else develop what they want"

danjc 4mo ago

Even if they could practically restrict access to US citizens only, I would expect them not to - it would be hard to regain that once lost and they need a global market for growth.

Wowfunhappy 4mo ago
> it would be hard to regain that once lost Harder than regaining the ability to sell access to the model at all?

charintstr 4mo ago

I find it most likely that this export ban means only USG has access to Mythos/Fable rn. Given the reports of NSA and DoD using Mythos it's now being given a near weapons-grade status by the government.