9 ms·

Moj.io: Connect your car to the world around you

145 points by mck- 14y ago

tobyjsullivan 14y ago
This looks very promising. Good potential for affordable fleet-tracking. I'm also excited to see a local (Vancouver) company with such a polished offer. I'll be following this one closely.
- mck- 14y ago
  Same here -- I'll be interested to see if they go head-on against Webtech Wireless
purephase 14y ago
This is brilliant. Very well laid-out with a nice polished design. Might just have to check this out.
aashay 14y ago
I went to http://www.moj.io/obd http://www.moj.io/obd as instructed by the FAQ to learn more about the OnBoard Diagnostic port, but got a 404. Edit: clarity
doublerebel 14y ago
Awesome. We are to 4 in just a few months [1]: Lit Motors C-1, Appcelerator+Denso, Ford's Open API, and now Moj.io. This space is exploding quickly and as a hacker and car enthusiast I can't wait to see what is next. Best of luck on your launch! [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4746532 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4746532
cedricd 14y ago
Nice... though you don't talk about what the data plan will cost. I assume it's basically like having an iPad with various carriers. But I could see that as a possible issue. Maybe if it could connect to the wifi of my house and send some data then?
- doublerebel 14y ago
  From their indiegogo page: Indiegogo backers pay only $7.99/mth or $79/year (US subscribers) for wireless service. moj.io uses machine-to-machine (M2M) cellular data exchange to send and receive data to and from your car. Unlike email, web browsing, etc, M2M data exchange is very small and requires only a very small data account. Presently, moj.io will work with any car built after 1995 and has cellular coverage in Canada and US cities. moj.io is supported by different wireless carriers in the US and Canada. When travelling from network to network, because it is on an M2M connection, there are no roaming fees. Your moj.io's default international roaming setting is set to Off. Contact us for details on international roaming rates between Canada and the US to enable this setting.
- deleted 14y ago
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nicholasreed 14y ago
Is anybody else using the OnBoard Diagnostic port? Is there some connector for an Arduino? I love this approach.
- nja 14y ago
  In the mobile space, I believe there are some connectors for vehicle monitoring tools and the like -- for tracking performance data on the track or to provide supplementary info to dashcam programs. I don't know of anything standalone like this.
- doublerebel 14y ago
  Yes, Ford's OpenXC uses the OBD-II port, and talks to Android through an Arduino. Website: http://openxcplatform.com/ http://openxcplatform.com/ OpenXC post on HN: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4745039 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4745039
- fudged71 14y ago
  I have been using a cheap (<$20) OBD-II dongle in my car for over a year now. The Torque app[1] has an impressive feature list and constant updates. I use it with my tablet inverted on the dashboard during night-driving for giving me a heads up display[2]. It's also great for things like acceleration graphs, tracking stats over the internet, and keeping check on the engine's performance/mpg. [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torq... [2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OPH7ZJJHV8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OPH7ZJJHV8
fudged71 14y ago
Considering the possibilities, I'm very much surprised that Google hasn't entered this space to supplement their traffic intelligence. Just look at the possibilities of the Torque Android app and this Mojio dongle to see how powerful it is. If Google came out with a bluetooth OBD-II dongle, they could integrate it into Google Maps/Nav and Google Now, both on Android and iOS. And you don't need an expensive cellular connection for a lot of the functionality, driving down the cost. In the long term, this would have positive effects for them. They would have realtime analytics from the roads to vastly improve traffic analytics in Google Maps. Google Navigation would also be improved for the user by providing realtime information about speed and fuel, which would greatly improve the user experience (more accurate directions, heads up display of speed, and "nearest gas station" when you're running low). Best of all? It would be $20, and provide them with all the data they need to make their upcoming driverless cars navigate better as well as improving navigation for existing android users in normal cars. It would also tell them how inefficient people are using their vehicles, and use this real crowdsourced data to market the efficiency of their driverless vehicles.
- nja 14y ago
  That would be a pretty cool idea. The only thing that Moj.io has over what you're proposing is the ability to be always-on, even when a phone is not in the car (hence the touted ability to detect hit & runs and towing). It would be interesting to maybe have a system that uses and assists apps on the phone but can switch over to its own connection when in a parked car.
  - fudged71 14y ago
    Two options of models would be a great idea; like iPads: one with cellular, and one without. One version gives you a few more features.
- firefoxman1 14y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if google acquired these guys to get into the space. Just imagine if it was tightly integrated with Android...and then imagine your google phone speaking perfectly with your google self-driving car. Oh the possibilities.
obilgic 14y ago
So such a port exists in all cars since 95, and no one did something like that?
- fudged71 14y ago
  Progressive Insurance did :| I nearly threw my remote at the television when I first saw that they were trying to get people to plug their insurance company into the computer of their car.
- jat850 14y ago
  OBD computers (especially anything before those even attempting to follow even a semblance of a standard) were a mess. They remain so even still. Lots of proprietary info and divergent technologies.
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fudged71 14y ago
I don't understand why it was designed to fit nicely in your hand, and why it was made with bright colors. #1. This thing will be under your steering wheel 100% of the time, so being able to hold it ergonomically doesn't make a lick of sense. #2. If one of your advertised functionalities is for recovery after theft, the last thing you want is for the thief to be able to spot the dongle and remove it. If I bought one, the first thing I would do is obscure it with hockey tape, but I would be concerned that the wireless capabilities would be hindered.
- 9999 14y ago
  Those OBD II connectors in cars can be kind of a pain to plug and unplug, so it does need to fit the hand well, but your point about the bright colors is very good. I hope they consider something more discrete.
  - nsainaney 14y ago
    We are indeed. We intend to offer multiple colors and will allow users to choose a color if we exceed 5000 units.
    - mck- 14y ago
      This may be a long shot, but were you at Launch@Grow?
      - jaygiraud 14y ago
        Actually, yes we were! Did you go on any of the startup crawls?
        mck- 14y ago
        Ooh, I think I might have had a conversation with Narayan! I was showcasing Routific at that conference when he came to our booth and we talked for a bit. Now I realize that he was showing me a prototype of the Mojio! :)
coldskull 14y ago
i am surprised nobody talked about security...i am guessing the OBD interface in cars can be used to send commands to various components....could somebody hack into your car??
- cleverjake 14y ago
  ODB means On Board Diagnostics. A majority of vehicles only report information - its not generally a control interface.
  - 54mf 14y ago
    This. It's read-only, as far as I'm aware.
  - fudged71 14y ago
    That doesn't mean that the security issue doesn't exist. Via wikipedia: "Researchers at the University of Washington and University of California examined the security around OBD, and found that they were able to gain control over many vehicle components via the interface. Furthermore, they were able to upload new firmware into the engine control units. Their conclusion is that vehicle embedded systems are not designed with security in mind."
    - cleverjake 14y ago
      Hence the use of "majority". Thank you for finding that link, I was trying to find this[1] presentation for my comment, but couldn't. [1] - http://users.cis.fiu.edu/~carbunar/teaching/cis5374/slides/autosec.g.mastakar.pptx http://users.cis.fiu.edu/~carbunar/teaching/cis5374/slides/a...
  - vostrocity 14y ago
    You can indeed "hack" your car. In fact, ECU flashing is one of the most common upgrades for people who want more power out of their cars because it requires no physical parts. It's generally done commercially [1][2] though there are attempts at user-configurable software [3]. Now I'm no expert on ECU flashing so these links are just examples. [1] http://changegears.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/apr-stage-1-ecu-flash-review/ http://changegears.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/apr-stage-1-ecu-... [2] http://www.velocityfactor.net/scripts/prodview.asp?idproduct=3125 http://www.velocityfactor.net/scripts/prodview.asp?idproduct... [3] http://www.tactrix.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=58 http://www.tactrix.com/index.php?option=com_content&view...
evck 14y ago
Most of the neat things that this device can accomplish could also be done with an OBD-II to Bluetooth interface, which can be had for ~$20 off EBay. You don't get remote access to the bus, but it's much cheaper. Not sure how they plan to implement some of the non-OBD-II features (remote unlock is a major one) for all vehicles, since there's no standard. But it'll be interesting to see where this goes.
alpb 14y ago
Why "Works with any car built after 1995", what's special about 1995?
- fudged71 14y ago
  >All cars and light trucks built and sold in the United States after January 1, 1996 were required to be OBD II equipped. In general, this means all 1996 model year cars and light trucks are compliant, even if built in late 1995. http://www.obdii.com/connector.html http://www.obdii.com/connector.html
- 9999 14y ago
  It works with OBD-II. All cars built after 1995 were mandated to support OBD-II: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics
- ddon 14y ago
  Accoding to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics) starting from 1996 The OBD-II specification was made mandatory for all cars sold in the United States.
johnnymonster 14y ago
The world around you minus syria!
filvdg 14y ago
I see the advantage of having a sim (the real remote monitoring part) but also the disadvantage of needing a dataplan for the sim and security concerns ... why not just make a bluetooth dongle for a fraction of the price ...
- vostrocity 14y ago
  What is the Bluetooth going to connect to when the car owner isn't the one driving?
- peterhajas 14y ago
  It seems that it's got some sort of whispernet type service, but I agree with you, paying for data would make this way less useful.
antonb2011 14y ago
Wow! A HUGE market that escaped everybody’s attention! There are a few comments that come to mind: First, this Modj.io company provides free testing ground for car companies to see if there is really a wide demand for such feedback mechanisms in public. At the first sight, I would say that there is, as they outlined in their sample use cases in the video. Second, the only chance that Modj.io has for survival is a quick ramp-up of user base, because this technology is a perfect example of what car companies will try to use for customer lock-in. Kind of like iTunes for your car, storing driving and tracking data in the cloud. I foresee that every car company will try to develop their own platform, SDK, and an app, with unique synergies coming from having access to their cars’ deep engineering knowledge. Additionally, this will give car companies real-time feedback about the performance of their cars down to the last part that failed. This will allow them to know things like that the left windshield wiper motor batch that fails more often that average was assembled on a Friday night by John Doe. That’s scary level of detail and feedback. Third, with such level of granularity, insurance companies will have a whole new set of market segmentation metrics, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see attempts in horizontal integration of car companies with such feedback information with insurance providers. Forth, when each car company starts promoting their own SDK, we will see an aggregator-type company that will produce an abstraction SDK that allows you to write an app once to work on all cars. Just my $0.02. I’d love to hear your projections as well, or comments on something I missed.
- tzm 14y ago
  I don't think it escaped everybody's attention.. there are several companies/people working on this.
  - lucisferre 14y ago
    Citation needed.
    - znq 14y ago
      Some of them do work in the shadows. Since they're not a social media startup they don't need the big media attention ;-)
Cieplak 14y ago
I'm really glad this wasn't around when I was a teenage driver.
tzm 14y ago
There is a community of OBD2 hackers out there working on this same problem w/ Arduino / Raspberry Pie. In my opinion, this is a feature that will be replaced by manufacturers embracing open APIs for the benefit of a more connected environment. So, while timely now, it will eventually be displaced. If you want to build your own, start with OpenGuage: http://code.google.com/p/opengauge/ http://code.google.com/p/opengauge/
peterhajas 14y ago
I had a roommate with one of these ODB connector dongles. He paired it with his phone, and was able to get tons of information about the car. He could even shut off various warnings/status lights, which was handy (my car at the time had a faulty sensor).
- hackmiester 14y ago
  He may have been using the Torque app, for Android. I have it and it is excellent.
Gertig 14y ago
I hope they didn't pick the name moj.io because they couldn't find a better .io name :) http://and.io http://and.io
K2h 14y ago
I wonder what the power draw is? a tad worried my car wont start after longterm parking.
- nsainaney 14y ago
  mojio monitors your vehicle battery level and ignition state. It will go into a deep sleep state with only critical functions on (e.g. theft monitoring) if the vehicle is not doing much. If the car battery hits some critical level, it will send you an alert and shut itself off.
  - K2h 14y ago
    Superb! Thanks so much for clarifying that.
nsainaney 14y ago
Great comments everyone. We agonized about bluetooth. If we can get bluetooth into the mojio without affecting the delivery dates, we intend to include it in the current version - no promises right now though. That way, people have the option to go without a data plan as needed. Also, there's no data plan lock in to mojio so we are looking for ways where people can either add a device to their existing cellular plan or just pay for months where they need it. We are also exploring ways to offset data plan costs. If we can get a sufficient user base, we all get to enjoy the economies of scale.
zx2c4 14y ago
Will we be able to modify the software running on the device? I sure as hell don't want information about my car's problems or GPS whereabouts, not to mention a detailed record of when I'm speeding, to be uploaded to "the cloud". And of course -- the increasingly likely case that "the cloud" gets owned, the hardware devices get some kind of pushed software update, which then proceeds to use manufacturer specific commands to upload new firmware into my car and drive me off the road. Blah blah. There're good reasons to be reluctant about hooking your car up to the internet and sending your data over yonder. It looks like potentially nice hardware. Now let me do the software myself. While you're at it, it'd be nice to just make the software open-source, so that tinkerers can tinker. Lest I have to JTAG the shit out of the flash chip. Which reminds me to ask -- can you at the very least keep some JTAG or serial headers on there? Please?
- nsainaney 14y ago
  Because of licensing and other issues, we aren't certain yet if we can make the firmware of the mojio open source. You can totally write your own apps against our cloud api. This is to abstract away vehicle idiosyncrasies from app developers. That said, we do want more savvy OBD experts to contribute to mojio. As for your data, you can wipe your data from the mojio servers at any time. Only you can see the data and choose which apps get to see it.
  - zx2c4 14y ago
    > we aren't certain yet if we can make the firmware of the mojio open source Please do let me know when you find out. This is a very important factor for me and many others. > You can totally write your own apps against our cloud api. I think you might have overlooked the primary point of the post. Many folks don't want and don't trust the cloud. My coordinates, travel history, and vehicle information are my business and are not to be stored in the cloud. > As for your data, you can wipe your data from the mojio servers at any time. Except law enforcement. > Only you can see the data Except law enforcement. Except hackers. Except the other guy's insurance company's subpoena after an accident. And also, the point about remotely reprogramming the device to reflash my car firmware... The point is -- many folks don't want to plug their car into cloud services. > we do want more savvy OBD experts to contribute to mojio. This is a difficult request when the platform is possibly going to be closed-source. Make it an open project, feel better when you receive funding for an open source project, and fuel good community innovation. Keeping it a closed "cloud api" platform stifles this. By the way, having an API doesn't mean things are "open", for whatever that word is worth now a days. Anyway, I'd be interested to hear your plans for JTAG/serial headers, if you're going to be keeping the firmware closed-source.
OldSchool 14y ago
Worth noting since we're all supposed to be hackers, the connector hasn't changed over the years since '96 OBD II in the US, but there are several protocols and many vendor-specific subsets of interaction. Early "code readers" may not work on later cars despite having the same plug because the underlying protocol is different. It's easy enough to find out what the protocols are on wikipedia if you're interested. What's available greatly depends on the specific vehicle manufacturer but there is a minimum set of data including DTC's (diagnostic trouble codes) for all. With manufacturer-specific details, there's an unbelievable amount of data and even commands and firmware download capability through that port. A decent PC-based system with specifics for your vehicle added-on is a worthy tool if you tend to do your own car repairs. Or at least you can go into the shop and tell them what part you need and know whether you're being quoted a reasonable price.
namank 14y ago
There's no security in place against the diagnostic port? I mean other than lock and key.
- brc 14y ago
  Hah, sadly no. And some enterprising thieves in the UK worked out that in certain model BMWs, you can cut a hole in the side glass and fit a sensor sender unit into the sender, while the alarm is activated. This is because the area beside the drivers mirror is an ultrasonic deadspot. Once the thieves have access to the diagnostic port, then can use the information to program a blank key to a valid key, and then steal the car. The affected models were 1 series, I believe, and it started getting to the point where the chances of a high-spec 1 series getting stolen were very high. Google '1 series theft problem' for more info. There is a home-security cam of some theives stealing a 1 series in a couple of minutes using this technique.
kmfrk 14y ago
moj.io works in all major urban centers with coverage for 95% of the Canadian and US population I think this should be near the top. Kickstarter-like projects always forget to account for international backers, which is getting seriously annoying.
blibble 14y ago
the security benefits are questionable, as thieves will learn very quickly to locate the OBD II port and remove anything plugged in.
judge224 14y ago
Interesting, lots of products being made by much larger companies already in the market... Audiovox just launched their Car Connection at retail. Not sure if you considered the competition. Calamp, danlaw, xirgo, anydata, etc. etc
skrebbel 14y ago
I've recently done some work for a startup that is developing a highly comparable product. I strongly doubt their "works on any car since 1995" claim. While OBD-II has been an official standard for very long, not all cars support it equally well at all. We've had serious trouble getting it to work with A-brand cars made in e.g. 1999. Therefore, I believe that them making this claim can mean one of two things: - They're lying - Their "prototype" has seen little field testing at this point. That said, honesty be told, we've been testing in Europe, where the OBD standard has been adopted later. My impression is that moj.io is a North-American only product. Maybe this makes all the difference. Additionally, however, "Virtual Mechanic" based on OBD-II alone is going to be a half-assed feature (to my understanding). OBD-II contains little more error reporting than that related to emission (i.e. your engine). If your airbag or your breaks malfunction, then this may only be reported through manufacturer-specific protocols. Most importantly, this would mean that a light in your dashboard may be lit, while the Moj.io app says "Running Great!" I highly doubt that they have implemented all manufacturer-specific protocols to a sufficient extent for this feature to work well. It is technically possible, but it needs either a lot of reverse engineering, or a lot of purchased IP. I really like the other features (FamilyConnect, etc), though, and how they're presented. Well done! Still, while I like this approach, and while I want this badly myself (and a lot of moj.io seems better planned, marketed and designed than what I've been involved in), based on the above I have strong doubts. Now, I understand that this may be hard criticism, and maybe I'm completely wrong about some aspects - I'm no real expert here. So if one of the founders reads this, feel free to correct me!
- jaygiraud 14y ago
  Hi skrebbel, great insights here. moj.io is a spin out of another company called REV Technologies, that has been doing energy telematics for the US Army with its partners at SAIC and Honeywell Aerospace since 2008. REV has extensive experience with CANbus networks and OBD communication. Our prototype moj.io device has the benefit of all that experience, whereby REV has been controlling power converters, inverters, motor controllers, large lithium battery packs and many other high voltage electronics and communicating over both the low, med and high speed CAN networks of both modern and not so modern cars. In regards to the Virtual Mechanic app, you're absolutely right. We know that presently it won't be as extensive on european cars as it will be for North America, which is part of the reason for focusing on the North American market for now. But that is just one app, and probably the least interesting one to the general market of drivers out there. We think the majority of the other apps that we and the dev community will build will only need basic info like odo reading, speed, on/off ignition states and what gear the car is in. So much can be done with that when blended with data from the device's accelerometer, GPS, etc. Jay Thanks for the very informed thinking on this! Great dialog.

145 points by mck- 14y ago

This looks very promising. Good potential for affordable fleet-tracking. I'm also excited to see a local (Vancouver) company with such a polished offer. I'll be following this one closely.

mck- 14y ago
Same here -- I'll be interested to see if they go head-on against Webtech Wireless

purephase 14y ago

This is brilliant. Very well laid-out with a nice polished design. Might just have to check this out.

aashay 14y ago

I went to http://www.moj.io/obd http://www.moj.io/obd as instructed by the FAQ to learn more about the OnBoard Diagnostic port, but got a 404. Edit: clarity

doublerebel 14y ago

Awesome. We are to 4 in just a few months [1]: Lit Motors C-1, Appcelerator+Denso, Ford's Open API, and now Moj.io. This space is exploding quickly and as a hacker and car enthusiast I can't wait to see what is next. Best of luck on your launch! [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4746532 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4746532

cedricd 14y ago

Nice... though you don't talk about what the data plan will cost. I assume it's basically like having an iPad with various carriers. But I could see that as a possible issue. Maybe if it could connect to the wifi of my house and send some data then?

doublerebel 14y ago
From their indiegogo page: Indiegogo backers pay only $7.99/mth or $79/year (US subscribers) for wireless service. moj.io uses machine-to-machine (M2M) cellular data exchange to send and receive data to and from your car. Unlike email, web browsing, etc, M2M data exchange is very small and requires only a very small data account. Presently, moj.io will work with any car built after 1995 and has cellular coverage in Canada and US cities. moj.io is supported by different wireless carriers in the US and Canada. When travelling from network to network, because it is on an M2M connection, there are no roaming fees. Your moj.io's default international roaming setting is set to Off. Contact us for details on international roaming rates between Canada and the US to enable this setting.
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nicholasreed 14y ago

Is anybody else using the OnBoard Diagnostic port? Is there some connector for an Arduino? I love this approach.

nja 14y ago
In the mobile space, I believe there are some connectors for vehicle monitoring tools and the like -- for tracking performance data on the track or to provide supplementary info to dashcam programs. I don't know of anything standalone like this.
doublerebel 14y ago
Yes, Ford's OpenXC uses the OBD-II port, and talks to Android through an Arduino. Website: http://openxcplatform.com/ http://openxcplatform.com/ OpenXC post on HN: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4745039 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4745039
fudged71 14y ago
I have been using a cheap (<$20) OBD-II dongle in my car for over a year now. The Torque app[1] has an impressive feature list and constant updates. I use it with my tablet inverted on the dashboard during night-driving for giving me a heads up display[2]. It's also great for things like acceleration graphs, tracking stats over the internet, and keeping check on the engine's performance/mpg. [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torq... [2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OPH7ZJJHV8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OPH7ZJJHV8

fudged71 14y ago

Considering the possibilities, I'm very much surprised that Google hasn't entered this space to supplement their traffic intelligence. Just look at the possibilities of the Torque Android app and this Mojio dongle to see how powerful it is. If Google came out with a bluetooth OBD-II dongle, they could integrate it into Google Maps/Nav and Google Now, both on Android and iOS. And you don't need an expensive cellular connection for a lot of the functionality, driving down the cost. In the long term, this would have positive effects for them. They would have realtime analytics from the roads to vastly improve traffic analytics in Google Maps. Google Navigation would also be improved for the user by providing realtime information about speed and fuel, which would greatly improve the user experience (more accurate directions, heads up display of speed, and "nearest gas station" when you're running low). Best of all? It would be $20, and provide them with all the data they need to make their upcoming driverless cars navigate better as well as improving navigation for existing android users in normal cars. It would also tell them how inefficient people are using their vehicles, and use this real crowdsourced data to market the efficiency of their driverless vehicles.

nja 14y ago
That would be a pretty cool idea. The only thing that Moj.io has over what you're proposing is the ability to be always-on, even when a phone is not in the car (hence the touted ability to detect hit & runs and towing). It would be interesting to maybe have a system that uses and assists apps on the phone but can switch over to its own connection when in a parked car.
- fudged71 14y ago
  Two options of models would be a great idea; like iPads: one with cellular, and one without. One version gives you a few more features.
firefoxman1 14y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if google acquired these guys to get into the space. Just imagine if it was tightly integrated with Android...and then imagine your google phone speaking perfectly with your google self-driving car. Oh the possibilities.

obilgic 14y ago

So such a port exists in all cars since 95, and no one did something like that?

fudged71 14y ago
Progressive Insurance did :| I nearly threw my remote at the television when I first saw that they were trying to get people to plug their insurance company into the computer of their car.
jat850 14y ago
OBD computers (especially anything before those even attempting to follow even a semblance of a standard) were a mess. They remain so even still. Lots of proprietary info and divergent technologies.

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fudged71 14y ago

I don't understand why it was designed to fit nicely in your hand, and why it was made with bright colors. #1. This thing will be under your steering wheel 100% of the time, so being able to hold it ergonomically doesn't make a lick of sense. #2. If one of your advertised functionalities is for recovery after theft, the last thing you want is for the thief to be able to spot the dongle and remove it. If I bought one, the first thing I would do is obscure it with hockey tape, but I would be concerned that the wireless capabilities would be hindered.

9999 14y ago
Those OBD II connectors in cars can be kind of a pain to plug and unplug, so it does need to fit the hand well, but your point about the bright colors is very good. I hope they consider something more discrete.
- nsainaney 14y ago
  We are indeed. We intend to offer multiple colors and will allow users to choose a color if we exceed 5000 units.
  - mck- 14y ago
    This may be a long shot, but were you at Launch@Grow?
    - jaygiraud 14y ago
      Actually, yes we were! Did you go on any of the startup crawls?
      - mck- 14y ago
        Ooh, I think I might have had a conversation with Narayan! I was showcasing Routific at that conference when he came to our booth and we talked for a bit. Now I realize that he was showing me a prototype of the Mojio! :)

coldskull 14y ago

i am surprised nobody talked about security...i am guessing the OBD interface in cars can be used to send commands to various components....could somebody hack into your car??

cleverjake 14y ago
ODB means On Board Diagnostics. A majority of vehicles only report information - its not generally a control interface.
- 54mf 14y ago
  This. It's read-only, as far as I'm aware.
- fudged71 14y ago
  That doesn't mean that the security issue doesn't exist. Via wikipedia: "Researchers at the University of Washington and University of California examined the security around OBD, and found that they were able to gain control over many vehicle components via the interface. Furthermore, they were able to upload new firmware into the engine control units. Their conclusion is that vehicle embedded systems are not designed with security in mind."
  - cleverjake 14y ago
    Hence the use of "majority". Thank you for finding that link, I was trying to find this[1] presentation for my comment, but couldn't. [1] - http://users.cis.fiu.edu/~carbunar/teaching/cis5374/slides/autosec.g.mastakar.pptx http://users.cis.fiu.edu/~carbunar/teaching/cis5374/slides/a...
- vostrocity 14y ago
  You can indeed "hack" your car. In fact, ECU flashing is one of the most common upgrades for people who want more power out of their cars because it requires no physical parts. It's generally done commercially [1][2] though there are attempts at user-configurable software [3]. Now I'm no expert on ECU flashing so these links are just examples. [1] http://changegears.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/apr-stage-1-ecu-flash-review/ http://changegears.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/apr-stage-1-ecu-... [2] http://www.velocityfactor.net/scripts/prodview.asp?idproduct=3125 http://www.velocityfactor.net/scripts/prodview.asp?idproduct... [3] http://www.tactrix.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=58 http://www.tactrix.com/index.php?option=com_content&view...

evck 14y ago

Most of the neat things that this device can accomplish could also be done with an OBD-II to Bluetooth interface, which can be had for ~$20 off EBay. You don't get remote access to the bus, but it's much cheaper. Not sure how they plan to implement some of the non-OBD-II features (remote unlock is a major one) for all vehicles, since there's no standard. But it'll be interesting to see where this goes.

alpb 14y ago

Why "Works with any car built after 1995", what's special about 1995?

fudged71 14y ago
>All cars and light trucks built and sold in the United States after January 1, 1996 were required to be OBD II equipped. In general, this means all 1996 model year cars and light trucks are compliant, even if built in late 1995. http://www.obdii.com/connector.html http://www.obdii.com/connector.html
9999 14y ago
It works with OBD-II. All cars built after 1995 were mandated to support OBD-II: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics
ddon 14y ago
Accoding to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics) starting from 1996 The OBD-II specification was made mandatory for all cars sold in the United States.

johnnymonster 14y ago

The world around you minus syria!

filvdg 14y ago

I see the advantage of having a sim (the real remote monitoring part) but also the disadvantage of needing a dataplan for the sim and security concerns ... why not just make a bluetooth dongle for a fraction of the price ...

vostrocity 14y ago
What is the Bluetooth going to connect to when the car owner isn't the one driving?
peterhajas 14y ago
It seems that it's got some sort of whispernet type service, but I agree with you, paying for data would make this way less useful.

antonb2011 14y ago

Wow! A HUGE market that escaped everybody’s attention! There are a few comments that come to mind: First, this Modj.io company provides free testing ground for car companies to see if there is really a wide demand for such feedback mechanisms in public. At the first sight, I would say that there is, as they outlined in their sample use cases in the video. Second, the only chance that Modj.io has for survival is a quick ramp-up of user base, because this technology is a perfect example of what car companies will try to use for customer lock-in. Kind of like iTunes for your car, storing driving and tracking data in the cloud. I foresee that every car company will try to develop their own platform, SDK, and an app, with unique synergies coming from having access to their cars’ deep engineering knowledge. Additionally, this will give car companies real-time feedback about the performance of their cars down to the last part that failed. This will allow them to know things like that the left windshield wiper motor batch that fails more often that average was assembled on a Friday night by John Doe. That’s scary level of detail and feedback. Third, with such level of granularity, insurance companies will have a whole new set of market segmentation metrics, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see attempts in horizontal integration of car companies with such feedback information with insurance providers. Forth, when each car company starts promoting their own SDK, we will see an aggregator-type company that will produce an abstraction SDK that allows you to write an app once to work on all cars. Just my $0.02. I’d love to hear your projections as well, or comments on something I missed.

tzm 14y ago
I don't think it escaped everybody's attention.. there are several companies/people working on this.
- lucisferre 14y ago
  Citation needed.
  - znq 14y ago
    Some of them do work in the shadows. Since they're not a social media startup they don't need the big media attention ;-)

Cieplak 14y ago

I'm really glad this wasn't around when I was a teenage driver.

tzm 14y ago

There is a community of OBD2 hackers out there working on this same problem w/ Arduino / Raspberry Pie. In my opinion, this is a feature that will be replaced by manufacturers embracing open APIs for the benefit of a more connected environment. So, while timely now, it will eventually be displaced. If you want to build your own, start with OpenGuage: http://code.google.com/p/opengauge/ http://code.google.com/p/opengauge/

peterhajas 14y ago

I had a roommate with one of these ODB connector dongles. He paired it with his phone, and was able to get tons of information about the car. He could even shut off various warnings/status lights, which was handy (my car at the time had a faulty sensor).

hackmiester 14y ago
He may have been using the Torque app, for Android. I have it and it is excellent.

Gertig 14y ago

I hope they didn't pick the name moj.io because they couldn't find a better .io name :) http://and.io http://and.io

K2h 14y ago

I wonder what the power draw is? a tad worried my car wont start after longterm parking.

nsainaney 14y ago
mojio monitors your vehicle battery level and ignition state. It will go into a deep sleep state with only critical functions on (e.g. theft monitoring) if the vehicle is not doing much. If the car battery hits some critical level, it will send you an alert and shut itself off.
- K2h 14y ago
  Superb! Thanks so much for clarifying that.

nsainaney 14y ago

Great comments everyone. We agonized about bluetooth. If we can get bluetooth into the mojio without affecting the delivery dates, we intend to include it in the current version - no promises right now though. That way, people have the option to go without a data plan as needed. Also, there's no data plan lock in to mojio so we are looking for ways where people can either add a device to their existing cellular plan or just pay for months where they need it. We are also exploring ways to offset data plan costs. If we can get a sufficient user base, we all get to enjoy the economies of scale.

zx2c4 14y ago

Will we be able to modify the software running on the device? I sure as hell don't want information about my car's problems or GPS whereabouts, not to mention a detailed record of when I'm speeding, to be uploaded to "the cloud". And of course -- the increasingly likely case that "the cloud" gets owned, the hardware devices get some kind of pushed software update, which then proceeds to use manufacturer specific commands to upload new firmware into my car and drive me off the road. Blah blah. There're good reasons to be reluctant about hooking your car up to the internet and sending your data over yonder. It looks like potentially nice hardware. Now let me do the software myself. While you're at it, it'd be nice to just make the software open-source, so that tinkerers can tinker. Lest I have to JTAG the shit out of the flash chip. Which reminds me to ask -- can you at the very least keep some JTAG or serial headers on there? Please?

nsainaney 14y ago
Because of licensing and other issues, we aren't certain yet if we can make the firmware of the mojio open source. You can totally write your own apps against our cloud api. This is to abstract away vehicle idiosyncrasies from app developers. That said, we do want more savvy OBD experts to contribute to mojio. As for your data, you can wipe your data from the mojio servers at any time. Only you can see the data and choose which apps get to see it.
- zx2c4 14y ago
  > we aren't certain yet if we can make the firmware of the mojio open source Please do let me know when you find out. This is a very important factor for me and many others. > You can totally write your own apps against our cloud api. I think you might have overlooked the primary point of the post. Many folks don't want and don't trust the cloud. My coordinates, travel history, and vehicle information are my business and are not to be stored in the cloud. > As for your data, you can wipe your data from the mojio servers at any time. Except law enforcement. > Only you can see the data Except law enforcement. Except hackers. Except the other guy's insurance company's subpoena after an accident. And also, the point about remotely reprogramming the device to reflash my car firmware... The point is -- many folks don't want to plug their car into cloud services. > we do want more savvy OBD experts to contribute to mojio. This is a difficult request when the platform is possibly going to be closed-source. Make it an open project, feel better when you receive funding for an open source project, and fuel good community innovation. Keeping it a closed "cloud api" platform stifles this. By the way, having an API doesn't mean things are "open", for whatever that word is worth now a days. Anyway, I'd be interested to hear your plans for JTAG/serial headers, if you're going to be keeping the firmware closed-source.

OldSchool 14y ago

Worth noting since we're all supposed to be hackers, the connector hasn't changed over the years since '96 OBD II in the US, but there are several protocols and many vendor-specific subsets of interaction. Early "code readers" may not work on later cars despite having the same plug because the underlying protocol is different. It's easy enough to find out what the protocols are on wikipedia if you're interested. What's available greatly depends on the specific vehicle manufacturer but there is a minimum set of data including DTC's (diagnostic trouble codes) for all. With manufacturer-specific details, there's an unbelievable amount of data and even commands and firmware download capability through that port. A decent PC-based system with specifics for your vehicle added-on is a worthy tool if you tend to do your own car repairs. Or at least you can go into the shop and tell them what part you need and know whether you're being quoted a reasonable price.

namank 14y ago

There's no security in place against the diagnostic port? I mean other than lock and key.

brc 14y ago
Hah, sadly no. And some enterprising thieves in the UK worked out that in certain model BMWs, you can cut a hole in the side glass and fit a sensor sender unit into the sender, while the alarm is activated. This is because the area beside the drivers mirror is an ultrasonic deadspot. Once the thieves have access to the diagnostic port, then can use the information to program a blank key to a valid key, and then steal the car. The affected models were 1 series, I believe, and it started getting to the point where the chances of a high-spec 1 series getting stolen were very high. Google '1 series theft problem' for more info. There is a home-security cam of some theives stealing a 1 series in a couple of minutes using this technique.

kmfrk 14y ago

moj.io works in all major urban centers with coverage for 95% of the Canadian and US population I think this should be near the top. Kickstarter-like projects always forget to account for international backers, which is getting seriously annoying.

blibble 14y ago

the security benefits are questionable, as thieves will learn very quickly to locate the OBD II port and remove anything plugged in.

judge224 14y ago

Interesting, lots of products being made by much larger companies already in the market... Audiovox just launched their Car Connection at retail. Not sure if you considered the competition. Calamp, danlaw, xirgo, anydata, etc. etc

skrebbel 14y ago

I've recently done some work for a startup that is developing a highly comparable product. I strongly doubt their "works on any car since 1995" claim. While OBD-II has been an official standard for very long, not all cars support it equally well at all. We've had serious trouble getting it to work with A-brand cars made in e.g. 1999. Therefore, I believe that them making this claim can mean one of two things: - They're lying - Their "prototype" has seen little field testing at this point. That said, honesty be told, we've been testing in Europe, where the OBD standard has been adopted later. My impression is that moj.io is a North-American only product. Maybe this makes all the difference. Additionally, however, "Virtual Mechanic" based on OBD-II alone is going to be a half-assed feature (to my understanding). OBD-II contains little more error reporting than that related to emission (i.e. your engine). If your airbag or your breaks malfunction, then this may only be reported through manufacturer-specific protocols. Most importantly, this would mean that a light in your dashboard may be lit, while the Moj.io app says "Running Great!" I highly doubt that they have implemented all manufacturer-specific protocols to a sufficient extent for this feature to work well. It is technically possible, but it needs either a lot of reverse engineering, or a lot of purchased IP. I really like the other features (FamilyConnect, etc), though, and how they're presented. Well done! Still, while I like this approach, and while I want this badly myself (and a lot of moj.io seems better planned, marketed and designed than what I've been involved in), based on the above I have strong doubts. Now, I understand that this may be hard criticism, and maybe I'm completely wrong about some aspects - I'm no real expert here. So if one of the founders reads this, feel free to correct me!

jaygiraud 14y ago
Hi skrebbel, great insights here. moj.io is a spin out of another company called REV Technologies, that has been doing energy telematics for the US Army with its partners at SAIC and Honeywell Aerospace since 2008. REV has extensive experience with CANbus networks and OBD communication. Our prototype moj.io device has the benefit of all that experience, whereby REV has been controlling power converters, inverters, motor controllers, large lithium battery packs and many other high voltage electronics and communicating over both the low, med and high speed CAN networks of both modern and not so modern cars. In regards to the Virtual Mechanic app, you're absolutely right. We know that presently it won't be as extensive on european cars as it will be for North America, which is part of the reason for focusing on the North American market for now. But that is just one app, and probably the least interesting one to the general market of drivers out there. We think the majority of the other apps that we and the dev community will build will only need basic info like odo reading, speed, on/off ignition states and what gear the car is in. So much can be done with that when blended with data from the device's accelerometer, GPS, etc. Jay Thanks for the very informed thinking on this! Great dialog.