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Over-hiring could be one way of explaining the effect we are seeing, however, where are those "coding bootcamp" or "online courses" engineers? I honestly ask be

Over-hiring could be one way of explaining the effect we are seeing, however, where are those "coding bootcamp" or "online courses" engineers? I honestly ask because I have never worked with one in almost 2 decades of being in the industry, and I worked across many different domains. What I see is on the contrary - the people who are getting laid off are people with legit engineering degrees from legit engineering Universities. Also, over-hiring by the very definition implies a sudden surplus of engineers on the market. I can't quite understand where did these engineers all of the sudden come from? The number of engineers outputted by the Universities YoY is pretty much close to O(1) so I am not convinced to this theory at all and I see it only as a good excuse that companies are making in order to make them look better. I spoke with my friends few days ago, and one of them runs the company so he asked me on the opinion of the AI frenzy. I gave him my view and by the end of it he told me that he feels uneasy but that he has to let go part of his employees because he simply does not need them anymore - they are literally replaced by the AI model and one or two or N-M engineers operating the model. Yesterday he needed 10 people for the job, today it is 2 or 3 people. So, I think that the AI has already changed the landscape dramatically, and what we are seeing are not the post-COVID effects.

witx 4mo ago
Where I'm from and peripheral countries, the industry is riddled with bootcampers and button pushers. My company even has a big bootcamp for reconversions
- menaerus 4mo ago
  What are you trying to suggest? That people without the University degree who have been trained for monkey coding do exist? Sure but that's not what I was saying nor does it skew the picture in any significant way.
  - witx 4mo ago
    What I'm trying to convey and you fail to understand is the picture you have in your mind is very much affected by your reality. The fact that you don't see these bootcampers doesn't mean they don't exist.
    - menaerus 4mo ago
      Not only you don't have a depth of thinking critically, and understanding my point, but you're also unbelievably arrogant.
      - witx 4mo ago
        The only thing I did was to point out that anedoctal data doesnt give you the full picture. Why the insults though?
        menaerus 4mo ago
        As I said, your communication style is coming across as arrogant and disrespectful. Instead of asking for more clarification and giving a benefit of a doubt you chose to counterpoint with a trivial example, in which tbh I am hesitant to believe. I say this as someone who has worked across continents and across many different domains. None of the layoffs taking place do not involve laying off "bootcamp" people.
        witx 4mo ago
        > Instead of asking for more clarification and giving a benefit of a doubt you chose to counterpoint with a trivial example I didn't counterpoint with a trivial example I just pointed out that where I'm from there are some bootcamp people being layed off. If you don't like someone counter pointing you, sorry that's your problem not mine. I was neither disrespectful or arrogant. > None of the layoffs taking place do not involve laying off "bootcamp" people. And how am I the arrogant one here? You're full of absolutes and certainties and get pisssy when someone argues against your point.
        menaerus 4mo ago
        Arrogant? I believe what I am saying is factual and pretty easy to check, if not already widely known if you read at least a tiny bit of tech news - so how about layoffs in Oracle, Intel, Meta, Microsoft, Amazon, PayPal, Cisco, Dell, Atlassian, Epic Games, ASML, Verizon, ..., and this is all without mentioning startups because there's just too many of them and not many people know a lot about them etc. Which of these layoffs are the bootcamp people? The problem I have with your "argument" is that it is unsubstantiated. And I already answered you earlier - it does not matter if such people exist because such people are not majority, unless you would like to support that hypothesis with some fact?

witx 4mo ago

Where I'm from and peripheral countries, the industry is riddled with bootcampers and button pushers. My company even has a big bootcamp for reconversions

menaerus 4mo ago
What are you trying to suggest? That people without the University degree who have been trained for monkey coding do exist? Sure but that's not what I was saying nor does it skew the picture in any significant way.
- witx 4mo ago
  What I'm trying to convey and you fail to understand is the picture you have in your mind is very much affected by your reality. The fact that you don't see these bootcampers doesn't mean they don't exist.
  - menaerus 4mo ago
    Not only you don't have a depth of thinking critically, and understanding my point, but you're also unbelievably arrogant.
    - witx 4mo ago
      The only thing I did was to point out that anedoctal data doesnt give you the full picture. Why the insults though?
      - menaerus 4mo ago
        As I said, your communication style is coming across as arrogant and disrespectful. Instead of asking for more clarification and giving a benefit of a doubt you chose to counterpoint with a trivial example, in which tbh I am hesitant to believe. I say this as someone who has worked across continents and across many different domains. None of the layoffs taking place do not involve laying off "bootcamp" people.
        witx 4mo ago
        > Instead of asking for more clarification and giving a benefit of a doubt you chose to counterpoint with a trivial example I didn't counterpoint with a trivial example I just pointed out that where I'm from there are some bootcamp people being layed off. If you don't like someone counter pointing you, sorry that's your problem not mine. I was neither disrespectful or arrogant. > None of the layoffs taking place do not involve laying off "bootcamp" people. And how am I the arrogant one here? You're full of absolutes and certainties and get pisssy when someone argues against your point.
        menaerus 4mo ago
        Arrogant? I believe what I am saying is factual and pretty easy to check, if not already widely known if you read at least a tiny bit of tech news - so how about layoffs in Oracle, Intel, Meta, Microsoft, Amazon, PayPal, Cisco, Dell, Atlassian, Epic Games, ASML, Verizon, ..., and this is all without mentioning startups because there's just too many of them and not many people know a lot about them etc. Which of these layoffs are the bootcamp people? The problem I have with your "argument" is that it is unsubstantiated. And I already answered you earlier - it does not matter if such people exist because such people are not majority, unless you would like to support that hypothesis with some fact?