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I don't think of HTML as low level, and I don't think that writing "high-level" web (whatever that is? React?) would be any faster to develop or produce better

I don't think of HTML as low level, and I don't think that writing "high-level" web (whatever that is? React?) would be any faster to develop or produce better results for his example. If you looked at the gov.uk page [1] that he linked, it is clean and readable. It doesn't look hard to me to make, and I don't think it is lacking functionality. I'll grant that writing web-apps without a framework is going to be harder for many people (especially with all the fancy features that are expected now days), but that is not the point of this writing. This is an argument that the web (especially government services) should be usable on limited devices too. 1 https://www.gov.uk/housing-benefit https://www.gov.uk/housing-benefit

kulahan 4mo ago
The article and commenters are both complaining about JS in favor of HTML - I'm really just talking about it in this context. Anyways, I disagree with the idea that we should make something simple enough for PSPs and car browsers. Just go to a library.
- grebc 4mo ago
  You clearly took the lesson on board didn’t you.
- dwb 4mo ago
  What a depressingly elitist and exclusionary view. The modern web browser contains all the technology right there to make fast, maximally-accessible websites and even some “app”-like things, but nah you can’t be bothered, screw the less-fortunate. Would you want to “just go to a library” instead of use the device you already have? I strongly doubt it.
  - kulahan 4mo ago
    “Go to a public library” is elitist? I am on my hands and knees begging you to reconsider this position. I cannot imagine a worse take.
    - dwb 4mo ago
      Public libraries are great and there should be a lot more of them and everyone should enjoy them, but they should absolutely not be a substitute for respectful, accessible web design and engineering. The elitism is that only people with the shiniest new devices should get to use your website on their terms.
      - kulahan 4mo ago
        I guarantee libraries do not have the shiniest new devices. So trying so hard to be offended.
        dwb 4mo ago
        You are either refusing to address the central point or your reading comprehension needs a lot of work. A premise of your original post was that libraries have newer devices than some users. I maintain that libraries should not have to be a fallback for your crappy website.
        kulahan 4mo ago
        Right, and I’m positing that you don’t need to support 20 year old devices that receive zero updates because everyone has access to libraries in an absolute last resort. There are limited resources when developing software. This is a pretty bad resource sink.
        dwb 4mo ago
        There are types of software for which I’d largely agree with you. Websites are not one of them: it takes effort or incompetence to make them slow and inaccessible.
        kulahan 4mo ago
        Like 99.998% of software problems are due to incompetence. What’s your point? That government software is somehow immune to this problem or something? You seem to agree with me, but refuse to admit it because you wish the world was different. I do too, but it’s pretty irrelevant.

kulahan 4mo ago

The article and commenters are both complaining about JS in favor of HTML - I'm really just talking about it in this context. Anyways, I disagree with the idea that we should make something simple enough for PSPs and car browsers. Just go to a library.

grebc 4mo ago
You clearly took the lesson on board didn’t you.
dwb 4mo ago
What a depressingly elitist and exclusionary view. The modern web browser contains all the technology right there to make fast, maximally-accessible websites and even some “app”-like things, but nah you can’t be bothered, screw the less-fortunate. Would you want to “just go to a library” instead of use the device you already have? I strongly doubt it.
- kulahan 4mo ago
  “Go to a public library” is elitist? I am on my hands and knees begging you to reconsider this position. I cannot imagine a worse take.
  - dwb 4mo ago
    Public libraries are great and there should be a lot more of them and everyone should enjoy them, but they should absolutely not be a substitute for respectful, accessible web design and engineering. The elitism is that only people with the shiniest new devices should get to use your website on their terms.
    - kulahan 4mo ago
      I guarantee libraries do not have the shiniest new devices. So trying so hard to be offended.
      - dwb 4mo ago
        You are either refusing to address the central point or your reading comprehension needs a lot of work. A premise of your original post was that libraries have newer devices than some users. I maintain that libraries should not have to be a fallback for your crappy website.
        kulahan 4mo ago
        Right, and I’m positing that you don’t need to support 20 year old devices that receive zero updates because everyone has access to libraries in an absolute last resort. There are limited resources when developing software. This is a pretty bad resource sink.
        dwb 4mo ago
        There are types of software for which I’d largely agree with you. Websites are not one of them: it takes effort or incompetence to make them slow and inaccessible.
        kulahan 4mo ago
        Like 99.998% of software problems are due to incompetence. What’s your point? That government software is somehow immune to this problem or something? You seem to agree with me, but refuse to admit it because you wish the world was different. I do too, but it’s pretty irrelevant.