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"Sending a message to your mother should not require infrastructure comparable to a small bank." To that end, requiring the use of GitHub for your application

"Sending a message to your mother should not require infrastructure comparable to a small bank." To that end, requiring the use of GitHub for your application to work is a dead end. "Macaroni Messenger is a distributed messaging system" No. "The backend does not exist." Unless by "backend" you mean the underlying infrastructure and server logic you've made the clients depend on for the exchange of messages to happen.

snowflaxxx 4mo ago
That’s fair criticism of the current implementation. The idea isn’t that transport magically disappears. The idea is that users don’t have to deploy, operate, pay for, or even think about transport. GitHub happens to provide one out of the box, which makes the proof of concept extremely easy to try. If I need to run databases, message brokers, servers and monitoring just to send my mom “please cook macaroni”, I’ve already lost interest.
- boomlinde 4mo ago
  > The idea isn’t that transport magically disappears. The idea is that users don’t have to deploy, operate, pay for, or even think about transport. It's sharing this advantage with every other free, third party managed communication service I can choose to depend on. It's also sharing the weakness that it puts me at the mercy of whatever third party I am relying on. It introduces a new weakness in that the third party being relied on here never intended for their infrastructure to be used in this way. > If I need to run databases, message brokers, servers and monitoring just to send my mom “please cook macaroni”, I’ve already lost interest. So don't. To that end, what specific problem does this address that other free third party communication service providers don't? My mother will have seen my email or SMS before you have instructed your mother on how to join GitHub and get an API token. We don't even need to agree on or stick to a provider.
  - Hugsbox 4mo ago
    I don't think this was meant to be taken as seriously as you seem to be taking it
    - boomlinde 4mo ago
      I'm directly addressing arguments made by the person I responded to. I'm not going to be taking you seriously, because you are not.
      - snowflaxxx 4mo ago
        Email and SMS are faster. Also monitored, moderated, and mined. Macaroni doesn't fix speed. It fixes who holds the keys — and who gets sued. That's the point.
        boomlinde 4mo ago
        If I use Outlook 365, Microsoft holds the keys. If I use Github, Microsoft holds the keys.
- fartcoin67 4mo ago
  [dead]
antran22 4mo ago
Saying that this doesn't use a backend is like saying serverless app doesn't run on a server
- timw4mail 4mo ago
  ...and that's why I've always hated that name
- snowflaxxx 4mo ago
  We don't say no backend — we say not our backend.
  - boomlinde 4mo ago
    You explicitly stated that "The backend does not exist."
    - snowflaxxx 4mo ago
      You're quoting me back at me. The quote is still correct. The backend doesn't exist. The messenger works. If that breaks your mental model of how software should be built — good. That was the point.
functionmouse 4mo ago
torrents need trackers but we still consider them peer to peer crypto needs nodes but we still consider them decentralized direct tcp/ip communication still requires routing but etc
- ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
  > torrents need trackers but we still consider them peer to peer false. there's DHT and we sometimes exchange magnet links with friends and trackers are optional. trackers just allow it easier and at scale. > crypto needs nodes but we still consider them decentralized It's only decentralized when somebody doesn't get to control enough nodes. Even if it was decentralized, it's apples to oranges. It's not serverless or peer to peer and this messenger is not distributed.

snowflaxxx 4mo ago

That’s fair criticism of the current implementation. The idea isn’t that transport magically disappears. The idea is that users don’t have to deploy, operate, pay for, or even think about transport. GitHub happens to provide one out of the box, which makes the proof of concept extremely easy to try. If I need to run databases, message brokers, servers and monitoring just to send my mom “please cook macaroni”, I’ve already lost interest.

boomlinde 4mo ago
> The idea isn’t that transport magically disappears. The idea is that users don’t have to deploy, operate, pay for, or even think about transport. It's sharing this advantage with every other free, third party managed communication service I can choose to depend on. It's also sharing the weakness that it puts me at the mercy of whatever third party I am relying on. It introduces a new weakness in that the third party being relied on here never intended for their infrastructure to be used in this way. > If I need to run databases, message brokers, servers and monitoring just to send my mom “please cook macaroni”, I’ve already lost interest. So don't. To that end, what specific problem does this address that other free third party communication service providers don't? My mother will have seen my email or SMS before you have instructed your mother on how to join GitHub and get an API token. We don't even need to agree on or stick to a provider.
- Hugsbox 4mo ago
  I don't think this was meant to be taken as seriously as you seem to be taking it
  - boomlinde 4mo ago
    I'm directly addressing arguments made by the person I responded to. I'm not going to be taking you seriously, because you are not.
    - snowflaxxx 4mo ago
      Email and SMS are faster. Also monitored, moderated, and mined. Macaroni doesn't fix speed. It fixes who holds the keys — and who gets sued. That's the point.
      - boomlinde 4mo ago
        If I use Outlook 365, Microsoft holds the keys. If I use Github, Microsoft holds the keys.
fartcoin67 4mo ago
[dead]

antran22 4mo ago

Saying that this doesn't use a backend is like saying serverless app doesn't run on a server

timw4mail 4mo ago
...and that's why I've always hated that name
snowflaxxx 4mo ago
We don't say no backend — we say not our backend.
- boomlinde 4mo ago
  You explicitly stated that "The backend does not exist."
  - snowflaxxx 4mo ago
    You're quoting me back at me. The quote is still correct. The backend doesn't exist. The messenger works. If that breaks your mental model of how software should be built — good. That was the point.

functionmouse 4mo ago

torrents need trackers but we still consider them peer to peer crypto needs nodes but we still consider them decentralized direct tcp/ip communication still requires routing but etc

ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
> torrents need trackers but we still consider them peer to peer false. there's DHT and we sometimes exchange magnet links with friends and trackers are optional. trackers just allow it easier and at scale. > crypto needs nodes but we still consider them decentralized It's only decentralized when somebody doesn't get to control enough nodes. Even if it was decentralized, it's apples to oranges. It's not serverless or peer to peer and this messenger is not distributed.