6 ms·

We had that in the 90's with Java. Why would this approach succeed today?

by bzzzt 4mo ago

simonw 4mo ago
Why wouldn't it? It's a different technology stack, developed with the benefit of decades of additional experience running hostile code on the web.
- pjmlp 4mo ago
  You mean like the CLR? Kind of strange that such experience still allows for WASM to be the target of C and C++ compilers, and there is no bounds checking support inside linear memory regions.
dtj1123 4mo ago
Because Java is a language, not a compilation target?
- ptx 4mo ago
  From the introduction section of the Java specification [1]: "The Java Virtual Machine is the cornerstone of the Java platform. It is the component of the technology responsible for its hardware- and operating system-independence, the small size of its compiled code, and its ability to protect users from malicious programs." [1] https://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jvms/se26/html/jvms-1.html https://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jvms/se26/html/jvms-1.h...
  - dtj1123 4mo ago
    From the same link, opening sentence: "The Java® programming language is a general-purpose, concurrent, object-oriented language." Edit: Having thought a little, I appreciate that it's possible to compile for the JVM from source code which is not Java, which makes the JVM a compilation target. As far as I'm aware the JVM doesn't have first class support for this though, It's been tacked on as an afterthought. Compiling C to JVM bytecode for example doesn't appear to be an enjoyable process. WASM on the other hand was designed explicity to function as a compilation target for arbitrary languages. Maybe I'm missing something, happy to be proven wrong.
    - ptx 4mo ago
      There are (or have been) lots of languages using the JVM as a compilation target, whether it is well-suited for this or not. Wikipedia has a partial list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_JVM_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_JVM_languages
      - dtj1123 4mo ago
        My point is that it isn't well suited for it. Hence WASM.
DanielHB 4mo ago
WASM sandbox is miles better than the JVM WASI is a standard on where to poke holes on the sandbox for your specific use-case WASM+WASI as a compilation target allows any program written for modern operating systems to work on any WASM runtime

We had that in the 90's with Java. Why would this approach succeed today?

by bzzzt 4mo ago

We had that in the 90's with Java. Why would this approach succeed today?

Why wouldn't it? It's a different technology stack, developed with the benefit of decades of additional experience running hostile code on the web.

pjmlp 4mo ago
You mean like the CLR? Kind of strange that such experience still allows for WASM to be the target of C and C++ compilers, and there is no bounds checking support inside linear memory regions.

dtj1123 4mo ago

Because Java is a language, not a compilation target?

ptx 4mo ago
From the introduction section of the Java specification [1]: "The Java Virtual Machine is the cornerstone of the Java platform. It is the component of the technology responsible for its hardware- and operating system-independence, the small size of its compiled code, and its ability to protect users from malicious programs." [1] https://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jvms/se26/html/jvms-1.html https://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jvms/se26/html/jvms-1.h...
- dtj1123 4mo ago
  From the same link, opening sentence: "The Java® programming language is a general-purpose, concurrent, object-oriented language." Edit: Having thought a little, I appreciate that it's possible to compile for the JVM from source code which is not Java, which makes the JVM a compilation target. As far as I'm aware the JVM doesn't have first class support for this though, It's been tacked on as an afterthought. Compiling C to JVM bytecode for example doesn't appear to be an enjoyable process. WASM on the other hand was designed explicity to function as a compilation target for arbitrary languages. Maybe I'm missing something, happy to be proven wrong.
  - ptx 4mo ago
    There are (or have been) lots of languages using the JVM as a compilation target, whether it is well-suited for this or not. Wikipedia has a partial list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_JVM_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_JVM_languages
    - dtj1123 4mo ago
      My point is that it isn't well suited for it. Hence WASM.

DanielHB 4mo ago

WASM sandbox is miles better than the JVM WASI is a standard on where to poke holes on the sandbox for your specific use-case WASM+WASI as a compilation target allows any program written for modern operating systems to work on any WASM runtime