5 ms·

I'm not a fan of Google, and also not attached to Apple or Microsoft, so this isn't me trying to stan for Google, but I'd like to request that you give examples

by xp84 5mo ago

I'm not a fan of Google, and also not attached to Apple or Microsoft, so this isn't me trying to stan for Google, but I'd like to request that you give examples of what competing products are categorically better (and, by what metric(s) you're judging - code quality? stability? robust set of features?) -- for Gmail, Docs/Drive/etc, Google Calendar, Maps, Classroom, YouTube. As far as I can tell, if judged by the marketplace (and breaking ties with which product I like better), Google has run away with the ball on all of those, and Gemini seems to at least be competitive. The only major product I'd say they've sunk below acceptability on is Search, which is demonstrably dogshit now...though I suspect it's more that they have changed their definition of what Search is for, from "helping users efficiently find other websites that are useful to them" to "A convenient on-ramp to, many times per day, capture the current user intent and steer them toward something that earns Google some ad revenue."

xahrepap 5mo ago
I think it’s a major feature gap that Gmail (paid or free) cannot create filters on headers. I also can’t do wildcard filters on “to” or “from”. For example, in my GApps I have it set up to route all emails not associated with a specific user to my primary user. So that it’s easier to make throwaway emails. I want to filter all to:`X.X@domain.tld` to a certain folder. No can do. It just feels restricted.
- rustystump 5mo ago
  This so much this. Gmail overall is pretty meh and then it has these stupid footguns that make it awful.
- no-name-here 5mo ago
  > I want to filter all to:`X.X@domain.tld` You can filter based on the to: field, yes. For many years I’ve been creating filters on free Gmail for to:, from:, subject:, etc. I set them up on desktop web. Perhaps there is something more specific you’re trying to do? > a major feature gap that Gmail (paid or free) cannot create filters on headers. You can create filters on header fields like from:, to:, and subject:, so I am guessing you mean something different than “cannot create filters on headers”?
  - shellwizard 5mo ago
    I think he refers to mail headers. Those are normally hidden away from you, at least on a PC browser you can see them: 1. Open the specific email. 2. Click the three vertical dots (More options icon) next to the "Reply" button. 3. Select "Show original" from the dropdown menu.
    - no-name-here 5mo ago
      Mail headers also include to:, from:, subject:, etc, as well as more obscure items too, which is why I think OP commenter meant something very different than “cannot filter on headers”. Also, more items that might help OP (as I can’t edit parent comment) - they mentioned wanting to use wildcards on to: field. Those header fields do allow specifying just part of the header, like just the domain, or one part of the to address. (But those match at word boundaries and I’m not aware of being able to match sub parts of words or more complex items.) Regardless, I don’t think I’d call this a “major” feature gap - maybe minor or more of a niche feature.
danudey 5mo ago
The major differentiating factor that Google has had in every product category is that their products are free and you have to deal with ads (and they monitor your behavior for profiling you and your interests). GMail and Google Maps were revolutionary when they came out, sure, but the vast majority of Google's products now are... fine? at best? And a lot of their "big products" were acquisitions that they absorbed in order to further the core goal of the business - to organize all the world's information and use it to serve ads to people. Meanwhile, Google has a litany of products they've started internally, launched, ran for a while, and then let stagnate or canned entirely; anecdotally I've heard that this is because your bonuses at Google hinge on your ability to launch a product and not your ability to support a product, so it's beneficial to get something launched and then immediately leave to go launch another project rather than polish the one you just launched into something to be proud of. I'm not sure if that's true, but it would certainly explain a lot; if Google launches something and it's bad or it doesn't click, they just give up on it. Google Wave, a half-dozen chat apps that I can think of, Stadia, and dozens of others. Things that Google launched, which had problems or didn't hit mass adoption instantly, and then just petered out and were retired with all of the time and energy and money put into them arguably wasted - products that people wanted, and wanted to succeed, but which weren't revolutionary successes at launch so they weren't worth further investment. Meanwhile, they (and most of the industry) are pushing AI for some reason despite the fact that almost no one actually wants AI to be the only way that people interact with information. This all reinforces what I've been saying about Google for decades: they're not creating things that users want to use, they're creating things that they want users to use. Sometimes those things align, but when they don't then it's not worth further investment (except, apparently, AI).
- harrall 5mo ago
  I just don’t think your opinion is shared by most people. Gmail is the most popular email service in the world, people are always telling me how they prefer Google Docs over everything else and their only competition is Microsoft. Yes it’s free but there is no other service that I rather switch to, and I actually pay for additional storage.
  - 5mo ago
rustystump 5mo ago
Funny. Search is the only thing that is outstanding as it is the big revenue arm, that and youtube. The last time i tried using gmaps i got ads and the thing could figure out where i was on the roads. It was comical as i always remembered google maps being better than apple. Today tho, apple beats them hands down. Googles products that do not get cancelled are pretty mediocre in todays market. They can build useful things but if it doesnt have ads in it, it gets axed
- Gander5739 5mo ago
  > the thing could figure out where i was on the roads Is this missing a "not"?
  - rustystump 5mo ago
    Yes.
josephg 5mo ago
> but I'd like to request that you give examples of what competing products are categorically better Personally I much prefer Fastmail to Gmail. The site is way faster and more cohesively designed. Fastmail supports jmap, and way more imap extensions (including push support on Apple mail). They have helpful humans handling support requests. And they do all of that with what seems like 1/10th or less the number of employees. The only thing I like more about Gmail is their native mobile apps. Fastmail’s official mobile app is a web view.
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
luma 5mo ago
> Gmail, Docs/Drive/etc, Google Calendar MS is the overwhelming favorite in each of these markets if you only consider paying users.

by xp84 5mo ago

xahrepap 5mo ago

I think it’s a major feature gap that Gmail (paid or free) cannot create filters on headers. I also can’t do wildcard filters on “to” or “from”. For example, in my GApps I have it set up to route all emails not associated with a specific user to my primary user. So that it’s easier to make throwaway emails. I want to filter all to:`X.X@domain.tld` to a certain folder. No can do. It just feels restricted.

rustystump 5mo ago
This so much this. Gmail overall is pretty meh and then it has these stupid footguns that make it awful.
no-name-here 5mo ago
> I want to filter all to:`X.X@domain.tld` You can filter based on the to: field, yes. For many years I’ve been creating filters on free Gmail for to:, from:, subject:, etc. I set them up on desktop web. Perhaps there is something more specific you’re trying to do? > a major feature gap that Gmail (paid or free) cannot create filters on headers. You can create filters on header fields like from:, to:, and subject:, so I am guessing you mean something different than “cannot create filters on headers”?
- shellwizard 5mo ago
  I think he refers to mail headers. Those are normally hidden away from you, at least on a PC browser you can see them: 1. Open the specific email. 2. Click the three vertical dots (More options icon) next to the "Reply" button. 3. Select "Show original" from the dropdown menu.
  - no-name-here 5mo ago
    Mail headers also include to:, from:, subject:, etc, as well as more obscure items too, which is why I think OP commenter meant something very different than “cannot filter on headers”. Also, more items that might help OP (as I can’t edit parent comment) - they mentioned wanting to use wildcards on to: field. Those header fields do allow specifying just part of the header, like just the domain, or one part of the to address. (But those match at word boundaries and I’m not aware of being able to match sub parts of words or more complex items.) Regardless, I don’t think I’d call this a “major” feature gap - maybe minor or more of a niche feature.

danudey 5mo ago

The major differentiating factor that Google has had in every product category is that their products are free and you have to deal with ads (and they monitor your behavior for profiling you and your interests). GMail and Google Maps were revolutionary when they came out, sure, but the vast majority of Google's products now are... fine? at best? And a lot of their "big products" were acquisitions that they absorbed in order to further the core goal of the business - to organize all the world's information and use it to serve ads to people. Meanwhile, Google has a litany of products they've started internally, launched, ran for a while, and then let stagnate or canned entirely; anecdotally I've heard that this is because your bonuses at Google hinge on your ability to launch a product and not your ability to support a product, so it's beneficial to get something launched and then immediately leave to go launch another project rather than polish the one you just launched into something to be proud of. I'm not sure if that's true, but it would certainly explain a lot; if Google launches something and it's bad or it doesn't click, they just give up on it. Google Wave, a half-dozen chat apps that I can think of, Stadia, and dozens of others. Things that Google launched, which had problems or didn't hit mass adoption instantly, and then just petered out and were retired with all of the time and energy and money put into them arguably wasted - products that people wanted, and wanted to succeed, but which weren't revolutionary successes at launch so they weren't worth further investment. Meanwhile, they (and most of the industry) are pushing AI for some reason despite the fact that almost no one actually wants AI to be the only way that people interact with information. This all reinforces what I've been saying about Google for decades: they're not creating things that users want to use, they're creating things that they want users to use. Sometimes those things align, but when they don't then it's not worth further investment (except, apparently, AI).

harrall 5mo ago
I just don’t think your opinion is shared by most people. Gmail is the most popular email service in the world, people are always telling me how they prefer Google Docs over everything else and their only competition is Microsoft. Yes it’s free but there is no other service that I rather switch to, and I actually pay for additional storage.
- 5mo ago

rustystump 5mo ago

Funny. Search is the only thing that is outstanding as it is the big revenue arm, that and youtube. The last time i tried using gmaps i got ads and the thing could figure out where i was on the roads. It was comical as i always remembered google maps being better than apple. Today tho, apple beats them hands down. Googles products that do not get cancelled are pretty mediocre in todays market. They can build useful things but if it doesnt have ads in it, it gets axed

Gander5739 5mo ago
> the thing could figure out where i was on the roads Is this missing a "not"?
- rustystump 5mo ago
  Yes.

josephg 5mo ago

> but I'd like to request that you give examples of what competing products are categorically better Personally I much prefer Fastmail to Gmail. The site is way faster and more cohesively designed. Fastmail supports jmap, and way more imap extensions (including push support on Apple mail). They have helpful humans handling support requests. And they do all of that with what seems like 1/10th or less the number of employees. The only thing I like more about Gmail is their native mobile apps. Fastmail’s official mobile app is a web view.

deleted 5mo ago

[deleted]

luma 5mo ago

> Gmail, Docs/Drive/etc, Google Calendar MS is the overwhelming favorite in each of these markets if you only consider paying users.