3 ms·

I'm sceptical of the claim that they couldn't eliminate the majority of them from stuff that's shipped up to the ISS. Even if it meant making special space cer

I'm sceptical of the claim that they couldn't eliminate the majority of them from stuff that's shipped up to the ISS. Even if it meant making special space certified hair conditioner.

s0rce 4mo ago
I don't see why not either, just get "organic"/plant or mineral based cosmetics, deodorants and hair products.
- Centigonal 4mo ago
  It's really, really complicated. Even "organic" or "all natural" products often contain synthetic contaminants as a result of manufacturing, packaging, or shipping processes. Unless NASA were to set up separate factories and supply chains for manufacturing all known sources of siloxane contamination (either on their own or in partnership with manufacturers), it would be very difficult to actually get a siloxane-free product with any kind of certainty or consistency. An example with a different contaminant: We can't seem to keep carcinogenic plasticizers out of our RXBars and our baby formula[1]. Those products are already way more regulated than something like wet wipes, and the companies that make them have a strong interest in keeping them free of contamination. [1] https://www.plasticlist.org/ https://www.plasticlist.org/
idlewords 4mo ago
There's a nice paper on this, ICES-2018-123 "Dimethylsilanediol (DMSD) Source Assessment and Mitigation on ISS: Estimated Contributions from Personal Hygiene Products Containing Volatile Methyl Siloxanes (VMS)". The upshot is more than half of the siloxane burden on ISS comes from God knows where (packaging, plastics, machinery, you name it). https://ttu-ir.tdl.org/items/ff1a240e-1fb1-4b04-acb2-42e9c45337c5 https://ttu-ir.tdl.org/items/ff1a240e-1fb1-4b04-acb2-42e9c45...
- LeifCarrotson 4mo ago
  From the paper: > The main sources of VMS were determined to be antiperspirants ... skin lotions ... wipes ... and hair conditioner. Several siloxanes-free options are available for [these products]. These products are now being assessed for crew member use in future increments. From the blog: > At present the agency is testing a new filtration system to put in front of the heat exchangers, to try to protect them, and continuing to try to cut down on siloxanes at the source level. There are probably people at NASA now whose entire career has been built on siloxane control. Why wasn't the result to simply ban siloxane-containing cosmetics and wipes? The cosmetics are up to the individual astronaut, which is a little crazy, but the wipes are provided by NASA, and they're still using siloxane-bearing wipes, which shortens the life of their water systems and costs crazy amounts of money.
  - MisterTea 4mo ago
    > Why wasn't the result to simply ban siloxane-containing cosmetics and wipes? I would assume there is an approval process in place and alternatives have to go through this process before they can be sent up. It might take months or years for approval.
    - jongjong 4mo ago
      [flagged]
      - deleted 4mo ago
        [deleted]
      - swiftcoder 4mo ago
        > There are so many useless chemicals in modern products... Like foamers in shampoos... You don't need that crap, it works fine without it... But does it work fine in zero-G, and does the "natural" alternative interact with any other process on the space station? This sort of substitution is trivial here on Earth, and quite complex in a tiny closed ecosystem spinning through the cosmos
  - bobmcnamara 4mo ago
- RetroTechie 4mo ago
  Got it. Time to introduce a "certified siloxane free" programme for the space station building & supply industry. Just joking here, but reading between the lines it might not be such a bad idea? (if doable)

I'm sceptical of the claim that they couldn't eliminate the majority of them from stuff that's shipped up to the ISS. Even if it meant making special space certified hair conditioner.

s0rce 4mo ago

I don't see why not either, just get "organic"/plant or mineral based cosmetics, deodorants and hair products.

Centigonal 4mo ago
It's really, really complicated. Even "organic" or "all natural" products often contain synthetic contaminants as a result of manufacturing, packaging, or shipping processes. Unless NASA were to set up separate factories and supply chains for manufacturing all known sources of siloxane contamination (either on their own or in partnership with manufacturers), it would be very difficult to actually get a siloxane-free product with any kind of certainty or consistency. An example with a different contaminant: We can't seem to keep carcinogenic plasticizers out of our RXBars and our baby formula[1]. Those products are already way more regulated than something like wet wipes, and the companies that make them have a strong interest in keeping them free of contamination. [1] https://www.plasticlist.org/ https://www.plasticlist.org/

idlewords 4mo ago

There's a nice paper on this, ICES-2018-123 "Dimethylsilanediol (DMSD) Source Assessment and Mitigation on ISS: Estimated Contributions from Personal Hygiene Products Containing Volatile Methyl Siloxanes (VMS)". The upshot is more than half of the siloxane burden on ISS comes from God knows where (packaging, plastics, machinery, you name it). https://ttu-ir.tdl.org/items/ff1a240e-1fb1-4b04-acb2-42e9c45337c5 https://ttu-ir.tdl.org/items/ff1a240e-1fb1-4b04-acb2-42e9c45...

LeifCarrotson 4mo ago
From the paper: > The main sources of VMS were determined to be antiperspirants ... skin lotions ... wipes ... and hair conditioner. Several siloxanes-free options are available for [these products]. These products are now being assessed for crew member use in future increments. From the blog: > At present the agency is testing a new filtration system to put in front of the heat exchangers, to try to protect them, and continuing to try to cut down on siloxanes at the source level. There are probably people at NASA now whose entire career has been built on siloxane control. Why wasn't the result to simply ban siloxane-containing cosmetics and wipes? The cosmetics are up to the individual astronaut, which is a little crazy, but the wipes are provided by NASA, and they're still using siloxane-bearing wipes, which shortens the life of their water systems and costs crazy amounts of money.
- MisterTea 4mo ago
  > Why wasn't the result to simply ban siloxane-containing cosmetics and wipes? I would assume there is an approval process in place and alternatives have to go through this process before they can be sent up. It might take months or years for approval.
  - jongjong 4mo ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 4mo ago
      [deleted]
    - swiftcoder 4mo ago
      > There are so many useless chemicals in modern products... Like foamers in shampoos... You don't need that crap, it works fine without it... But does it work fine in zero-G, and does the "natural" alternative interact with any other process on the space station? This sort of substitution is trivial here on Earth, and quite complex in a tiny closed ecosystem spinning through the cosmos
- bobmcnamara 4mo ago
RetroTechie 4mo ago
Got it. Time to introduce a "certified siloxane free" programme for the space station building & supply industry. Just joking here, but reading between the lines it might not be such a bad idea? (if doable)