3 ms·

my first association here would be steering of torpedoes. the US Navy must have been on this for decades and very deep pockets.

7952 4mo ago
Navies are known to use low frequency radio to send messages to submerged subs.
- raffael_de 4mo ago
  But isn't torpedo steering still dependent on wire?
  - XorNot 4mo ago
    The issue is it doesn't really matter and radio isn't much benefit: you get much higher bandwidth, better reliability, immunity to ECM, and fiber-optic wires in Ukraine are over 50km long. The exact application for this is autonomous underwater vehicles where what you would like to do is communicate quickly and without a tether in arbitrary scenarios - i.e. think a bunch of autonomous vehicles which might need to relay a message or communicate with dropped assets. Using radio in those scenarios solves the problem of a consumable (the wire), and also the problems associated with sonar like fouling of the array.
    - raffael_de 4mo ago
      fair enough but afaik torpedoes aren't tethered by a fiber optic cable like drones. it's a much thicker cable that possibly contains a fiber optic cable.
      - XorNot 4mo ago
        Right but they're heavier with far fewer weight concerns then an aircraft. Torpedos are large, heavy and expensive. The point is a very thin wire had a surprisingly long range - versus this system which has a very low bitrate much past 1km. For an active weapons system it's just not a great choice when you already have the wires and they work. But for sensors or vehicle meshing, where you can't lay wires in advance? Potentially huge.
- adrian_b 4mo ago
  This uses the same principle, but the traditional method required immense antennas and very high power radio transmitters. Such antennas and transmitters cannot be installed in a small submarine. Here a new kind of antenna is used, which is efficient under water even at small dimensions, so it can be installed in small submarines, for communication at distances of up to a few hundred meter.
Klaus23 4mo ago
Torpedoes are usually steered using fibre-optic wires, like the fibre-optic drones in Ukraine today, so there is no need for problematic low-frequency radio.
- redsocksfan45 4mo ago
  [dead]
- m4rtink 4mo ago
  Terminal homing phase sub-torpedo drone swarm use case for this ? ;-)
  - Klaus23 4mo ago
    As funny as your comment sounds, I wouldn't rule out the Ukrainians actually doing it. At least for sea+air and air+air, sub-drones are already a reality.
    - m4rtink 4mo ago
      Yeah, there is at least one case where they (critically ?) damaged a Kilo class submarine using an underwater drone last year: https://en.defence-ua.com/news/why_damaged_russian_kilo_class_submarine_is_effectively_a_total_loss-16829.html https://en.defence-ua.com/news/why_damaged_russian_kilo_clas...

7952 4mo ago

Navies are known to use low frequency radio to send messages to submerged subs.

raffael_de 4mo ago
But isn't torpedo steering still dependent on wire?
- XorNot 4mo ago
  The issue is it doesn't really matter and radio isn't much benefit: you get much higher bandwidth, better reliability, immunity to ECM, and fiber-optic wires in Ukraine are over 50km long. The exact application for this is autonomous underwater vehicles where what you would like to do is communicate quickly and without a tether in arbitrary scenarios - i.e. think a bunch of autonomous vehicles which might need to relay a message or communicate with dropped assets. Using radio in those scenarios solves the problem of a consumable (the wire), and also the problems associated with sonar like fouling of the array.
  - raffael_de 4mo ago
    fair enough but afaik torpedoes aren't tethered by a fiber optic cable like drones. it's a much thicker cable that possibly contains a fiber optic cable.
    - XorNot 4mo ago
      Right but they're heavier with far fewer weight concerns then an aircraft. Torpedos are large, heavy and expensive. The point is a very thin wire had a surprisingly long range - versus this system which has a very low bitrate much past 1km. For an active weapons system it's just not a great choice when you already have the wires and they work. But for sensors or vehicle meshing, where you can't lay wires in advance? Potentially huge.
adrian_b 4mo ago
This uses the same principle, but the traditional method required immense antennas and very high power radio transmitters. Such antennas and transmitters cannot be installed in a small submarine. Here a new kind of antenna is used, which is efficient under water even at small dimensions, so it can be installed in small submarines, for communication at distances of up to a few hundred meter.

Klaus23 4mo ago

Torpedoes are usually steered using fibre-optic wires, like the fibre-optic drones in Ukraine today, so there is no need for problematic low-frequency radio.

redsocksfan45 4mo ago
[dead]
m4rtink 4mo ago
Terminal homing phase sub-torpedo drone swarm use case for this ? ;-)
- Klaus23 4mo ago
  As funny as your comment sounds, I wouldn't rule out the Ukrainians actually doing it. At least for sea+air and air+air, sub-drones are already a reality.
  - m4rtink 4mo ago
    Yeah, there is at least one case where they (critically ?) damaged a Kilo class submarine using an underwater drone last year: https://en.defence-ua.com/news/why_damaged_russian_kilo_class_submarine_is_effectively_a_total_loss-16829.html https://en.defence-ua.com/news/why_damaged_russian_kilo_clas...