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That sounds similar to the lamentations of American buyers who want Japanese kei trucks. It’s protectionism all the way down I guess. Though I see tons of US

That sounds similar to the lamentations of American buyers who want Japanese kei trucks. It’s protectionism all the way down I guess. Though I see tons of US pickup trucks in the Netherlands, and have seen even lifted ones in Germany too for that matter.

cucumber3732842 4mo ago
Lamenting the difficulty of registering kei trucks is kind of rich coming from the patron saint of "the roads are horribly dangerous and we need to do everything to safen them up and drivers can bear whatever that costs" Protectionism when I don't like it, public safety when I do I guess. In any case, they're pretty easy to register if you don't lick the boot. Whatever state you're in typically isn't gonna come after you for tax evasion for an object they aren't in the business of taxing if you catch my drift.
- Lvl999Noob 4mo ago
  > if you catch my drift Not OP but I don't. What do you mean? How do you make the kei truck an object they aren't in the business of taxing when they are, in fact, in that very business? Or maybe I have some deeper confusion about the issue here.
  - JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
    > What do you mean? I think they mean it’s easier than many of us suspect to register an imported car as something close enough and get away with it. The most challenging bit would probably be maintenance.
    - cucumber3732842 4mo ago
      I meant just register it in one of the slightly less than half of states that let you do that. Even if some Karen narcs on you to the tax man unless it's an especially slow day the tax man will say something along the lines of "It's a what? We don't register those" The registration/tax people aren't in the business of giving a shit about the nuances of the vehicle code. They're in the business of collecting money. It's not like you're dodging meaningful fees on an entire truck fleet. You're dodging what would be a zero to them since they'd never let you register it. What are they gonna do send you one of those "we believe you owe us X, pay up or we'll use the full force of the state to fucking stomp you and ruin your life" letters with X= $0. I'm sure they'll get right on that.
      - toast0 4mo ago
        If you title and register your kei car in washington (where you can register it, usually) and keep it and drive it in California (where you can't register it), there's a chance some officer who hates kei cars is going to find it and raise a stink. And then you've got to pay fines, and maybe your car gets towed and you have to flatbed it out of state. Plus fines, I'm sure. If it's cheap enough or fun enough, it might be worth the risk; but I don't know that I would risk it. I know someone who got pulled over, and then a ticket for driving in California with washington plates and changing 3 lanes at once. "Anybody who drives like that must live here" Not sure what a kei car would be doing on a freeway 3 lanes over though.
    - steve-atx-7600 4mo ago
      I live outside of Austin TX and have seen one regularly parked outside a house in my neighborhood for 5 years now. Has a license plate. If I had to bet, I’d say it’s registered (taxes paid, has required insurance) because police around here have camera systems in their cars that scan plates looking for unregistered vehicles (found out the hard way one time when I forgot to renew).
    - CalRobert 4mo ago
      My understanding is they generally need to be 25+ years old, but this may vary (or I am out of date?) https://www.kei-trucks.com/blogs/kei-trucks/state-restrictions-for-kei-trucks https://www.kei-trucks.com/blogs/kei-trucks/state-restrictio...
      - JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
        I think OP’s point is nobody is going to verify if it’s 10 or 25 years old.
    - yellowapple 4mo ago
      That depends a lot on the state. I hear in Utah it's very easy to register a kei truck/van as street-legal. Here in Nevada it's quite the opposite, at least according to those I've talked to who've attempted it.
throwaway2037 4mo ago
> American buyers who want Japanese kei trucks. It is crazy when I hear people say they want to drive a kei truck on American roads. American SUVs and trucks are enormous in both height and weight. The kei truck does not offer the necessary crash protection.
- xnx 4mo ago
  People already ride motorcycles so why not let them drive in much safer kei trucks?
- JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
  > The kei truck does not offer the necessary crash protection Eh, if you aren’t doing a lot of highway driving, I think this could be fine? Especially in a city where collisions should be low speed. Put another way—and this is a genuine question—is the person who wants a Kei truck better off spending tens of thousands of dollars more for safety rather than investing that in their health, happiness or education?
  - throwaway2037 4mo ago
    You raise some interesting points. A different way to look at safety: Why do car companies bother at all? Why isn't it a race to the bottom for car crash safety? "Oh, it's expensive to have cars with crash safety. Let's reduce our materials cost."
    - ChiperSoft 4mo ago
      They did before consumer safety regulations went into affect
    - JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
      > Why do car companies bother at all? Why isn't it a race to the bottom for car crash safety? More safety, always, is usually a feel-good measure. If people aren’t trading in their old cars for the newer, safer ones, because the latter are too expensive, it’s not actually helping people. Same if the cheapest car someone can get for their commute is bankrupting them.
JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
> That sounds similar to the lamentations of American buyers Is there a good international metric for how much a given country’s car buyers pay extra due to tariffs, duties, protectionist regulation, et cetera?
wongarsu 4mo ago
In Germany it's mostly US service members and their families who drive US pickup trucks. They can ship personal vehicles to Germany without having to make them fully compliant with German regulations, and generally seem to like them Away from US bases, pickup trucks are very rare in Germany. The closest thing you will see are 3-ton flatbed trucks as work vehicles, or something like a VW Transporter. But generally tradespeople prefer vans, and commuters prefer hatchbacks or SUVs (which are bad enough)
- CalRobert 4mo ago
  Despite failing to meet EU safety rules, they can be imported under Individual Vehicle Approval - """ The use of IVA for so-called ‘off-road’ vehicles (N1G) has more than doubled since 2019, rising from 2,900 new registrations in that year to 6,800 in 2022, with Dodge Ram pick-up trucks accounting for approx 60% of IVAs in this category over these four years, 2019 to 2022 """ https://etsc.eu/concerns-over-loopholes-allowing-american-pickup-trucks-to-bypass-safety-and-environmental-regulations/ https://etsc.eu/concerns-over-loopholes-allowing-american-pi... Anyway, my point was that you can buy American trucks in Europe right now, so op may be able to get this $30k Ford. For what it's worth, I have a big soft spot for trucks with long beds and normal-height hoods! Something like a Chevy S10 or 90's Tacoma is really useful! I just don't like biking with my kids by drivers who can't seem them.
ramgine 4mo ago
I’ve wanted a kei truck for a while. Then when you park it next to suburban mom’s expedition/escalade/luxury bus it’s so tiny it looks unsafe. Unfortunately I live in a city where small town trips are difficult without getting on a 70+ mph freeway and competing with those vehicles

cucumber3732842 4mo ago

Lamenting the difficulty of registering kei trucks is kind of rich coming from the patron saint of "the roads are horribly dangerous and we need to do everything to safen them up and drivers can bear whatever that costs" Protectionism when I don't like it, public safety when I do I guess. In any case, they're pretty easy to register if you don't lick the boot. Whatever state you're in typically isn't gonna come after you for tax evasion for an object they aren't in the business of taxing if you catch my drift.

Lvl999Noob 4mo ago
> if you catch my drift Not OP but I don't. What do you mean? How do you make the kei truck an object they aren't in the business of taxing when they are, in fact, in that very business? Or maybe I have some deeper confusion about the issue here.
- JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
  > What do you mean? I think they mean it’s easier than many of us suspect to register an imported car as something close enough and get away with it. The most challenging bit would probably be maintenance.
  - cucumber3732842 4mo ago
    I meant just register it in one of the slightly less than half of states that let you do that. Even if some Karen narcs on you to the tax man unless it's an especially slow day the tax man will say something along the lines of "It's a what? We don't register those" The registration/tax people aren't in the business of giving a shit about the nuances of the vehicle code. They're in the business of collecting money. It's not like you're dodging meaningful fees on an entire truck fleet. You're dodging what would be a zero to them since they'd never let you register it. What are they gonna do send you one of those "we believe you owe us X, pay up or we'll use the full force of the state to fucking stomp you and ruin your life" letters with X= $0. I'm sure they'll get right on that.
    - toast0 4mo ago
      If you title and register your kei car in washington (where you can register it, usually) and keep it and drive it in California (where you can't register it), there's a chance some officer who hates kei cars is going to find it and raise a stink. And then you've got to pay fines, and maybe your car gets towed and you have to flatbed it out of state. Plus fines, I'm sure. If it's cheap enough or fun enough, it might be worth the risk; but I don't know that I would risk it. I know someone who got pulled over, and then a ticket for driving in California with washington plates and changing 3 lanes at once. "Anybody who drives like that must live here" Not sure what a kei car would be doing on a freeway 3 lanes over though.
  - steve-atx-7600 4mo ago
    I live outside of Austin TX and have seen one regularly parked outside a house in my neighborhood for 5 years now. Has a license plate. If I had to bet, I’d say it’s registered (taxes paid, has required insurance) because police around here have camera systems in their cars that scan plates looking for unregistered vehicles (found out the hard way one time when I forgot to renew).
  - CalRobert 4mo ago
    My understanding is they generally need to be 25+ years old, but this may vary (or I am out of date?) https://www.kei-trucks.com/blogs/kei-trucks/state-restrictions-for-kei-trucks https://www.kei-trucks.com/blogs/kei-trucks/state-restrictio...
    - JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
      I think OP’s point is nobody is going to verify if it’s 10 or 25 years old.
  - yellowapple 4mo ago
    That depends a lot on the state. I hear in Utah it's very easy to register a kei truck/van as street-legal. Here in Nevada it's quite the opposite, at least according to those I've talked to who've attempted it.

throwaway2037 4mo ago

> American buyers who want Japanese kei trucks. It is crazy when I hear people say they want to drive a kei truck on American roads. American SUVs and trucks are enormous in both height and weight. The kei truck does not offer the necessary crash protection.

xnx 4mo ago
People already ride motorcycles so why not let them drive in much safer kei trucks?
JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
> The kei truck does not offer the necessary crash protection Eh, if you aren’t doing a lot of highway driving, I think this could be fine? Especially in a city where collisions should be low speed. Put another way—and this is a genuine question—is the person who wants a Kei truck better off spending tens of thousands of dollars more for safety rather than investing that in their health, happiness or education?
- throwaway2037 4mo ago
  You raise some interesting points. A different way to look at safety: Why do car companies bother at all? Why isn't it a race to the bottom for car crash safety? "Oh, it's expensive to have cars with crash safety. Let's reduce our materials cost."
  - ChiperSoft 4mo ago
    They did before consumer safety regulations went into affect
  - JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
    > Why do car companies bother at all? Why isn't it a race to the bottom for car crash safety? More safety, always, is usually a feel-good measure. If people aren’t trading in their old cars for the newer, safer ones, because the latter are too expensive, it’s not actually helping people. Same if the cheapest car someone can get for their commute is bankrupting them.

JumpCrisscross 4mo ago

> That sounds similar to the lamentations of American buyers Is there a good international metric for how much a given country’s car buyers pay extra due to tariffs, duties, protectionist regulation, et cetera?

wongarsu 4mo ago

In Germany it's mostly US service members and their families who drive US pickup trucks. They can ship personal vehicles to Germany without having to make them fully compliant with German regulations, and generally seem to like them Away from US bases, pickup trucks are very rare in Germany. The closest thing you will see are 3-ton flatbed trucks as work vehicles, or something like a VW Transporter. But generally tradespeople prefer vans, and commuters prefer hatchbacks or SUVs (which are bad enough)

CalRobert 4mo ago
Despite failing to meet EU safety rules, they can be imported under Individual Vehicle Approval - """ The use of IVA for so-called ‘off-road’ vehicles (N1G) has more than doubled since 2019, rising from 2,900 new registrations in that year to 6,800 in 2022, with Dodge Ram pick-up trucks accounting for approx 60% of IVAs in this category over these four years, 2019 to 2022 """ https://etsc.eu/concerns-over-loopholes-allowing-american-pickup-trucks-to-bypass-safety-and-environmental-regulations/ https://etsc.eu/concerns-over-loopholes-allowing-american-pi... Anyway, my point was that you can buy American trucks in Europe right now, so op may be able to get this $30k Ford. For what it's worth, I have a big soft spot for trucks with long beds and normal-height hoods! Something like a Chevy S10 or 90's Tacoma is really useful! I just don't like biking with my kids by drivers who can't seem them.

ramgine 4mo ago

I’ve wanted a kei truck for a while. Then when you park it next to suburban mom’s expedition/escalade/luxury bus it’s so tiny it looks unsafe. Unfortunately I live in a city where small town trips are difficult without getting on a 70+ mph freeway and competing with those vehicles