5 ms·

Chill out. This has nothing to do with skilled/unskilled, illegal/legal. Its about reform for all of immigration policy, not just those who can already make a l

Chill out. This has nothing to do with skilled/unskilled, illegal/legal. Its about reform for all of immigration policy, not just those who can already make a living for themselves anywhere. Plus, and I hate to say it, but there's very clearly much greater need (not demand, need) for the sorts of jobs 'unskilled illegals' end up doing than the high-skill (read: class) jobs that this piece of legislation addresses. And stop this immigrants-voting-schtick conspiracy theory. The impact their inclusion would make would doubtly even be within the margin of error. People have much better things to do.

jdminhbg 14y ago
> (not demand, need) Wow.
- hack_edu 14y ago
  Sorry but there is a difference between the two out there in the real world.
ekm2 14y ago
Right,the american economy is in danger of tanking if the country does not hire more janitors.Science and Engineering phds can look after themselves elsewhere,Canada maybe?
- seldo 14y ago
  If you kicked out all of the undocumented workers currently working in the US tomorrow, I can absolutely guarantee you that the American economy would immediately collapse. You need more of both.
- commandar 14y ago
  California's -- in particular -- argicultural economy is highly reliant on unskilled, migrant workers. Producing food for people to eat is somewhat important.
  - muhfuhkuh 14y ago
    I would daresay more important than, for example, another social networking mobile app. Not that there's anything wrong with another app, but I'd rather eat.
  - pandaman 14y ago
    Wisconsin produces half as much food as California[1] with 50 times fewer illegal immigrants[2]. I won't vouch for that site's data but having lived in both states I don't see any reason to distrust these particular numbers. [1]http://www.statemaster.com/graph/ind_foo_man_tot_val_of_shi-food-manufacturing-total-value-shipments http://www.statemaster.com/graph/ind_foo_man_tot_val_of_shi-... [2]http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_est_num_of_ill_imm-people-estimated-number-illegal-immigrants http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_est_num_of_ill_imm-peop...
    - commandar 14y ago
      This is a complete WAG, but if I were to take a stab in the dark, I suspect the makeup of Wisconsin's agriculture industry is rather different than California's. It looks like Wisconsin's industry is geared largely toward livestock and dairy, with fruit and vegetable crops largely composed of things like cranberries, corn, and potatoes: http://www.aae.wisc.edu/pubs/status/docs/status2012.pdf http://www.aae.wisc.edu/pubs/status/docs/status2012.pdf California, on the other hand, apparently produces "nearly half of US-grown fruits, nuts and vegetables." http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/statistics/ http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/statistics/ It's my understanding that migrant workers in CA are largely employed picking fruits, vegetables, etc. Again, I'm by no means speaking authoritatively here, but there's certainly more to this than simply comparing the dollar-value of each state's combined agricultural output.
      - pandaman 14y ago
        There is no doubt the makeup of Wisconsin's agriculture industry is different. The climate alone is very different between these two states, not counting other things like availability of irrigated land, energy, transportation etc. Edit: I was just trying to make a point that being in the country illegally does not seem like a necessary condition of food production and WI is a fine example of it. I also have no doubt that if WI had more illegal immigrants available they could be employed in the agriculture just as much as they are in CA. It just happens the closest border to WI is with Canada and Canadians don't seem to be very enthusiastic about working illegally in the America's Dairyland.
ibarrac 14y ago
I disagree. There is a larger need for skilled workers: that's why they command much higher wages. I think dmk23 is right. Since Obama got elected there seems to be a higher rate of denials for H1B applications and renewals, without clear guidelines why. Looks like pressure from above. See http://www.indianexpress.com/news/obama-warned-over-h1b-visa-denials/913370 http://www.indianexpress.com/news/obama-warned-over-h1b-visa... It does seem like Obama favors unskilled immigration (amnesty for illegals and the like) over skilled immigration, which I think frankly, is stupid and short-sighted, pandering to his increasingly powerful latino (mostly Mexican-American) voters.
msgilligan 14y ago
The immigrants-voting-schtick ain't no conspiracy theory. It's simple demographics (~10million x ~70% ~= net +4 million votes for the Democrats). I'm pro-amnesty, but ignoring the obvious electoral effect and the partisan interests around it is just not thinking clearly.

jdminhbg 14y ago

> (not demand, need) Wow.

hack_edu 14y ago
Sorry but there is a difference between the two out there in the real world.

ekm2 14y ago

Right,the american economy is in danger of tanking if the country does not hire more janitors.Science and Engineering phds can look after themselves elsewhere,Canada maybe?

seldo 14y ago
If you kicked out all of the undocumented workers currently working in the US tomorrow, I can absolutely guarantee you that the American economy would immediately collapse. You need more of both.
commandar 14y ago
California's -- in particular -- argicultural economy is highly reliant on unskilled, migrant workers. Producing food for people to eat is somewhat important.
- muhfuhkuh 14y ago
  I would daresay more important than, for example, another social networking mobile app. Not that there's anything wrong with another app, but I'd rather eat.
- pandaman 14y ago
  Wisconsin produces half as much food as California[1] with 50 times fewer illegal immigrants[2]. I won't vouch for that site's data but having lived in both states I don't see any reason to distrust these particular numbers. [1]http://www.statemaster.com/graph/ind_foo_man_tot_val_of_shi-food-manufacturing-total-value-shipments http://www.statemaster.com/graph/ind_foo_man_tot_val_of_shi-... [2]http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_est_num_of_ill_imm-people-estimated-number-illegal-immigrants http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_est_num_of_ill_imm-peop...
  - commandar 14y ago
    This is a complete WAG, but if I were to take a stab in the dark, I suspect the makeup of Wisconsin's agriculture industry is rather different than California's. It looks like Wisconsin's industry is geared largely toward livestock and dairy, with fruit and vegetable crops largely composed of things like cranberries, corn, and potatoes: http://www.aae.wisc.edu/pubs/status/docs/status2012.pdf http://www.aae.wisc.edu/pubs/status/docs/status2012.pdf California, on the other hand, apparently produces "nearly half of US-grown fruits, nuts and vegetables." http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/statistics/ http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/statistics/ It's my understanding that migrant workers in CA are largely employed picking fruits, vegetables, etc. Again, I'm by no means speaking authoritatively here, but there's certainly more to this than simply comparing the dollar-value of each state's combined agricultural output.
    - pandaman 14y ago
      There is no doubt the makeup of Wisconsin's agriculture industry is different. The climate alone is very different between these two states, not counting other things like availability of irrigated land, energy, transportation etc. Edit: I was just trying to make a point that being in the country illegally does not seem like a necessary condition of food production and WI is a fine example of it. I also have no doubt that if WI had more illegal immigrants available they could be employed in the agriculture just as much as they are in CA. It just happens the closest border to WI is with Canada and Canadians don't seem to be very enthusiastic about working illegally in the America's Dairyland.

ibarrac 14y ago

I disagree. There is a larger need for skilled workers: that's why they command much higher wages. I think dmk23 is right. Since Obama got elected there seems to be a higher rate of denials for H1B applications and renewals, without clear guidelines why. Looks like pressure from above. See http://www.indianexpress.com/news/obama-warned-over-h1b-visa-denials/913370 http://www.indianexpress.com/news/obama-warned-over-h1b-visa... It does seem like Obama favors unskilled immigration (amnesty for illegals and the like) over skilled immigration, which I think frankly, is stupid and short-sighted, pandering to his increasingly powerful latino (mostly Mexican-American) voters.

msgilligan 14y ago

The immigrants-voting-schtick ain't no conspiracy theory. It's simple demographics (~10million x ~70% ~= net +4 million votes for the Democrats). I'm pro-amnesty, but ignoring the obvious electoral effect and the partisan interests around it is just not thinking clearly.