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I was surprised after moving to Ireland to discover that you can break the law and nothing will happen. I went through hell with planners (idiots who don’t beli

I was surprised after moving to Ireland to discover that you can break the law and nothing will happen. I went through hell with planners (idiots who don’t believe in climate change and hate eaves) while people around me put three mobile homes on their land as well as building two permanent homes with no permission (and ripping out ancient hedgerows) and successfully got retention. Why even bother?

trick-or-treat 4mo ago
Sure, but you have to move to Ireland. That's a deal-breaker for most folks.
- CalRobert 4mo ago
  Yeah, we ended up leaving in part because of how lawless our area was (the midlands)
  - rendall 4mo ago
    I'd love to hear more about this if you have the time. What specific things happened?
    - CalRobert 4mo ago
      Family next door had 17 kids (yes, from one mother), 5 dangerous dogs, and absolutely despised us (somehow we thought having a few acres of land would make worrying about neighbours less necessary). There was an ongoing decades-old land feud with the farmer behind both of our homes. The aforementioned dangerous dogs killed several of the farmer's sheep, so the farmer finally shot and killed one of the dogs during an attack on said sheep, which escalated tensions. We had 2 and 4 year old kids who, it's worth noting, were roughly the size of sheep and about as tempting for the dogs to kill, so we were basically terrified to let our kids outside. Neighbours routinely insulted us, yelled at us, and threw garbage (including old chemical containers, sharp metal, etc.) on to our land. They also routinely trespassed and shot fireworks over our thatch roof (the roof was part thatch, part modern) - very concerning when your roof is more flammable than kindling. Finally they left a dead crow in a bag by our door which felt like a threat, so we sold the place at a €100k loss and moved to the Netherlands. Gardai were absolutely lazy, uncaring, and useless, and did absolutely nothing. Now I encourage everyone I can to stay as far away from rural Ireland as possible.
      - dmos62 4mo ago
        What an absolute nightmare! Did this teach you anything valuable? Apart from staying away from rural Ireland.
        CalRobert 4mo ago
        Mostly to be careful. The house was an absolute dream on paper. It was even something you could commute to Dublin from on the train in a pinch. I eventually gained some biases that the former-me who lived in the lefty "Dublin 2 and https://irishtechcommunity.com/ https://irishtechcommunity.com/" bubble wouldn't have been particularly quick to espouse. Now that it's been a few years I think I'm a little better at seeing different sides of things politically, at least.
      - saeedesmaili 4mo ago
        How has the experience in the Netherlands been? Did you move to a rural area in the Netherlands?
        CalRobert 4mo ago
        No, we moved to Houten (about 5km from central Utrecht). It's been great! Friendly neighbours, good school that my kids walk to (they can walk and bike all over the place actually), pretty efficient bureaucracy, great public transit.. Though you know, even some places in the Netherlands (Hilversum comes to mind) won't stop people parking on pavements for some reason, which is annoying. Overall I really like it though.
Tade0 4mo ago
I jokingly refer to this as the Catholic principle: "sin first - confess and repent later" as it's a common theme in countries that are/were traditionally Catholic, including my own. It's really just places culturally untouched by Calvinism, Puritanism and the like, all of which put emphasis on order. The last thing to attempt bringing order to them were various forms of authoritarianism and they didn't last. I think we can agree this is not the right approach.
- CalRobert 4mo ago
  Maybe I'm a Calvinist. I'm definitely happier in the Netherlands. My general experience was that Irish laws existed mostly for show and if you followed them you were a chump. Unless you wanted to smoke a joint now and then, of course. Ireland supposedly cares about nature too, but you can still buy truckloads of turf off the side of the road in Offaly. Good luck getting those rules enforced. When we still lived in Dublin I got pretty tired of having to push my baby in her pram in the street because the pavements (sidewalks) were completely covered in cars, even in the city centre trying to get to the YMCA creche. Our experience wasn't limited to "victimless" crimes though. I think when you're threatening your neighbours and letting dangerous dogs loose on other people's land where there's kids or sheep then authoritarianism is called for. It really is a place where crime is legal.
  - Bewelge 4mo ago
    You may have a point but you're discrediting yourself by using extreme hyperbole. Authoritarianism would be you and your family getting picked up and interrogated sometime at night for this critical comment you just made. And saying "crime is legal" when referring to cars parked on the sidewalk or you having had a bad experience with a neighbours dog? I think if you reflect a little you'd realise that these are the kind of "crimes" you probably have committed yourself countless times.
    - CalRobert 4mo ago
      I’ve never let dogs with a history of killing livestock on to my neighbours’ land where kids are playing. But regardless, I’m much happier since leaving.
__alexs 4mo ago
It's always worth understanding the consequences of non compliance before you'd decide to comply (and vice versa.)
beAbU 4mo ago
2 months ago there was a story about a huge family mansion in Meath being demolished after a court found they did not have the proper planning permissions, and the council was unwilling to grant the permissions after the fact. Also just last week a judge ordered the demolition/removal of 26 mobile homes from a site in Dublin set up without permissions. Friends of mine recently got planning permission for a house they've been living in for about 3 years already. So you can def roll the dice on such things, maybe you get away with it for decades, maybe your house gets flattened. My (also an immigrant like you) take on Ireland is that many of these systems are run and controlled by humans, and you can get pretty far by trying to make that human connection with the people controlling your fate. My wife was initially refused maternity benefit, because she did not have enough social security contributions. She works part-time, and she was missing 1 contribution (about €120) out of something like 38 for the year. After friends (the same from above) suggested we phone them and talk to the people, the maternity benefit application was approved. I find that there is a lot less "sorry can't help you, computer says no" here.
- CalRobert 4mo ago
  True, and we did find that we could at least talk to our TD pretty easily, which was good for a sympathetic ear but didn't change much. Might be worth noting that the house you mention was built 20 years ago. https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2026/05/26/meath-council-ran-up-680000-bills-during-20-year-saga-over-bohermeen-house-demolition/ https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2026/05/... And indeed, rules against mobile homes are actually enforced in Dublin, but outside the pale we definitely had a different experience.
- Pay08 4mo ago
  In common parlance, that's called corruption.
  - CalRobert 4mo ago
    Definitely is an embodiment of class/accent/skin colour privilege.
s_dev 4mo ago
There is a lot of truth to this but things are changing e.g. those houses without planning permission getting torn down. That simply would not have happened two decades ago.
andy_ppp 4mo ago
We’ve had a warmer than average year worldwide every year since 1976. I suppose it’s just coincidence that exactly what climate scientists said would happen keeps happening and keeps getting worse.
sublimefire 4mo ago
OMG the planning system is definitely an issue in this country. I did try to wing it but had to demolish a small structure, retention was not approved. Their letters are insanely threatening, like you can go to jail or pay a fine in millions. But then another time I just did the planning permission in my own name, drawings and all and it was approved fairly quickly despite me not being an eng or arch. It depends on the town/city you are in and the planning department. I used to deal with planning in other European countries and Ireland just lacks technical supervision step, hence the dependence on neighbours notifying the council and on the front loading of the initial application process.
- CalRobert 4mo ago
  There also are a lot of things that could help a lot with reducing heat gain in the summer that planners are strongly opposed to, like eaves (which let in the sun in winter but not in the midday in summer), and I can't fathom why.

trick-or-treat 4mo ago

Sure, but you have to move to Ireland. That's a deal-breaker for most folks.

CalRobert 4mo ago
Yeah, we ended up leaving in part because of how lawless our area was (the midlands)
- rendall 4mo ago
  I'd love to hear more about this if you have the time. What specific things happened?
  - CalRobert 4mo ago
    Family next door had 17 kids (yes, from one mother), 5 dangerous dogs, and absolutely despised us (somehow we thought having a few acres of land would make worrying about neighbours less necessary). There was an ongoing decades-old land feud with the farmer behind both of our homes. The aforementioned dangerous dogs killed several of the farmer's sheep, so the farmer finally shot and killed one of the dogs during an attack on said sheep, which escalated tensions. We had 2 and 4 year old kids who, it's worth noting, were roughly the size of sheep and about as tempting for the dogs to kill, so we were basically terrified to let our kids outside. Neighbours routinely insulted us, yelled at us, and threw garbage (including old chemical containers, sharp metal, etc.) on to our land. They also routinely trespassed and shot fireworks over our thatch roof (the roof was part thatch, part modern) - very concerning when your roof is more flammable than kindling. Finally they left a dead crow in a bag by our door which felt like a threat, so we sold the place at a €100k loss and moved to the Netherlands. Gardai were absolutely lazy, uncaring, and useless, and did absolutely nothing. Now I encourage everyone I can to stay as far away from rural Ireland as possible.
    - dmos62 4mo ago
      What an absolute nightmare! Did this teach you anything valuable? Apart from staying away from rural Ireland.
      - CalRobert 4mo ago
        Mostly to be careful. The house was an absolute dream on paper. It was even something you could commute to Dublin from on the train in a pinch. I eventually gained some biases that the former-me who lived in the lefty "Dublin 2 and https://irishtechcommunity.com/ https://irishtechcommunity.com/" bubble wouldn't have been particularly quick to espouse. Now that it's been a few years I think I'm a little better at seeing different sides of things politically, at least.
    - saeedesmaili 4mo ago
      How has the experience in the Netherlands been? Did you move to a rural area in the Netherlands?
      - CalRobert 4mo ago
        No, we moved to Houten (about 5km from central Utrecht). It's been great! Friendly neighbours, good school that my kids walk to (they can walk and bike all over the place actually), pretty efficient bureaucracy, great public transit.. Though you know, even some places in the Netherlands (Hilversum comes to mind) won't stop people parking on pavements for some reason, which is annoying. Overall I really like it though.

Tade0 4mo ago

I jokingly refer to this as the Catholic principle: "sin first - confess and repent later" as it's a common theme in countries that are/were traditionally Catholic, including my own. It's really just places culturally untouched by Calvinism, Puritanism and the like, all of which put emphasis on order. The last thing to attempt bringing order to them were various forms of authoritarianism and they didn't last. I think we can agree this is not the right approach.

CalRobert 4mo ago
Maybe I'm a Calvinist. I'm definitely happier in the Netherlands. My general experience was that Irish laws existed mostly for show and if you followed them you were a chump. Unless you wanted to smoke a joint now and then, of course. Ireland supposedly cares about nature too, but you can still buy truckloads of turf off the side of the road in Offaly. Good luck getting those rules enforced. When we still lived in Dublin I got pretty tired of having to push my baby in her pram in the street because the pavements (sidewalks) were completely covered in cars, even in the city centre trying to get to the YMCA creche. Our experience wasn't limited to "victimless" crimes though. I think when you're threatening your neighbours and letting dangerous dogs loose on other people's land where there's kids or sheep then authoritarianism is called for. It really is a place where crime is legal.
- Bewelge 4mo ago
  You may have a point but you're discrediting yourself by using extreme hyperbole. Authoritarianism would be you and your family getting picked up and interrogated sometime at night for this critical comment you just made. And saying "crime is legal" when referring to cars parked on the sidewalk or you having had a bad experience with a neighbours dog? I think if you reflect a little you'd realise that these are the kind of "crimes" you probably have committed yourself countless times.
  - CalRobert 4mo ago
    I’ve never let dogs with a history of killing livestock on to my neighbours’ land where kids are playing. But regardless, I’m much happier since leaving.

__alexs 4mo ago

It's always worth understanding the consequences of non compliance before you'd decide to comply (and vice versa.)

beAbU 4mo ago

2 months ago there was a story about a huge family mansion in Meath being demolished after a court found they did not have the proper planning permissions, and the council was unwilling to grant the permissions after the fact. Also just last week a judge ordered the demolition/removal of 26 mobile homes from a site in Dublin set up without permissions. Friends of mine recently got planning permission for a house they've been living in for about 3 years already. So you can def roll the dice on such things, maybe you get away with it for decades, maybe your house gets flattened. My (also an immigrant like you) take on Ireland is that many of these systems are run and controlled by humans, and you can get pretty far by trying to make that human connection with the people controlling your fate. My wife was initially refused maternity benefit, because she did not have enough social security contributions. She works part-time, and she was missing 1 contribution (about €120) out of something like 38 for the year. After friends (the same from above) suggested we phone them and talk to the people, the maternity benefit application was approved. I find that there is a lot less "sorry can't help you, computer says no" here.

CalRobert 4mo ago
True, and we did find that we could at least talk to our TD pretty easily, which was good for a sympathetic ear but didn't change much. Might be worth noting that the house you mention was built 20 years ago. https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2026/05/26/meath-council-ran-up-680000-bills-during-20-year-saga-over-bohermeen-house-demolition/ https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/housing-planning/2026/05/... And indeed, rules against mobile homes are actually enforced in Dublin, but outside the pale we definitely had a different experience.
Pay08 4mo ago
In common parlance, that's called corruption.
- CalRobert 4mo ago
  Definitely is an embodiment of class/accent/skin colour privilege.

s_dev 4mo ago

There is a lot of truth to this but things are changing e.g. those houses without planning permission getting torn down. That simply would not have happened two decades ago.

andy_ppp 4mo ago

We’ve had a warmer than average year worldwide every year since 1976. I suppose it’s just coincidence that exactly what climate scientists said would happen keeps happening and keeps getting worse.

sublimefire 4mo ago

OMG the planning system is definitely an issue in this country. I did try to wing it but had to demolish a small structure, retention was not approved. Their letters are insanely threatening, like you can go to jail or pay a fine in millions. But then another time I just did the planning permission in my own name, drawings and all and it was approved fairly quickly despite me not being an eng or arch. It depends on the town/city you are in and the planning department. I used to deal with planning in other European countries and Ireland just lacks technical supervision step, hence the dependence on neighbours notifying the council and on the front loading of the initial application process.

CalRobert 4mo ago
There also are a lot of things that could help a lot with reducing heat gain in the summer that planners are strongly opposed to, like eaves (which let in the sun in winter but not in the midday in summer), and I can't fathom why.