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Voting control doesn't change management's fiduciary duty to all shareholders. The founders retaining voting control has worked out fine for Alphabet shareholde

by ralph84 4mo ago

Voting control doesn't change management's fiduciary duty to all shareholders. The founders retaining voting control has worked out fine for Alphabet shareholders.

collinmcnulty 4mo ago
Yeah but SpaceX says you need 3% of the company to sue, so that fiduciary duty is never going to be enforced.
- londons_explore 4mo ago
  Getting together a group of owners with 3% ownership by value or 3% by voting rights both seems do-able, and I'm sure would be done of there was a serious case of mismanagement.
colechristensen 4mo ago
It raises the bar to the courts for shareholder control. The Google founders are, lets say, more reliable than Musk when it comes to making sound business decisions.
- cryptonector 4mo ago
  > The Google founders are, lets say, more reliable than Musk when it comes to making sound business decisions. I've no idea about that and I won't opine. But every time I see that sort of statement it seems likely motivated by the whole Twitter acquisition. Perhaps that was just a toy or vanity project for him, one he could afford, so even if you think he's running X terribly it might have nothing to do with how he's run or would run any other companies that are not related to social media. In other words, what I read into such statements is "I don't like the politics he's brought to Twitter!", "the board should rein in the guy whose politics I don't like!!". It's like saying Bezos is bad at business because he owns the Washington Post -another vanity project- and you don't like the Post. Do people not get bored of that sort of take? Tell me he makes bad business decisions all you want, but in the context of everyone-hates-his-acquisition-of-Twitter I'd like to hear about his other businesses. Tell me something useful, not something political. And, sure, politics at some point bleeds into business. Maybe Trump is out to get Bezos over Washington Post coverage, or maybe the next Democrat President will go after Musk for his politics. It's possible that X will eventually cost him dearly and personally, and it's a solid argument for these billionaires and trillionaires to stay out of politics. Or maybe it's a good argument for them to stay in because maybe by demonstrating electoral influence and power they can make the POTUS-of-the-day fear them enough to not go after them too hard. But if you made any such argument it still wouldn't say tell me anything about the rest of these billionaires' businesses.
  - queenkjuul 4mo ago
    Space GPUs are stupid, so is hyperloop, so is the Vegas Loop; robotaxis don't work, cybertruck sucks, the humanoid robots don't work, the new roadster is nowhere to be seen. SpaceX blew up an entire launchpad because Musk thought flame diverters are gay, or something. And, yes, Twitter is now a shithole.
    - christoph 4mo ago
      This doesn’t even include the whole taking money from people for FSD that was JUST 2 years away…
      - karmakurtisaani 4mo ago
        Just wait until 2022 when SpaceX is ready to launch their first mission to Mars.
        cyberge99 4mo ago
        I guess I’m not going to make it to your launch party four years ago.
        karmakurtisaani 4mo ago
        Don't worry, it's been shifted to 2024 now!
    - johnthewise 4mo ago
      If you do so many things, some are bound to be stupid.
      - phs318u 4mo ago
        While it is true that a broken clock is right twice a day, the inverse is not.
    - 4mo ago
overfeed 4mo ago
> The founders retaining voting control has worked out fine for Alphabet shareholders. Only after the cofounders brought in veteran "adult supervision" who offered guided the company with a steady hand, while Larry and Sergei were safely in their moonshot hobby project play-pens, away from the core products - an arrangement that would greatly benefit shareholders in Musk companies.
Zigurd 4mo ago
Fiduciary duty is meaningless without recourse. The governance structure denies any recourse. A case of breach of fiduciary duty would never make it to trial under the governance structure.

by ralph84 4mo ago

Voting control doesn't change management's fiduciary duty to all shareholders. The founders retaining voting control has worked out fine for Alphabet shareholders.

collinmcnulty 4mo ago

Yeah but SpaceX says you need 3% of the company to sue, so that fiduciary duty is never going to be enforced.

londons_explore 4mo ago
Getting together a group of owners with 3% ownership by value or 3% by voting rights both seems do-able, and I'm sure would be done of there was a serious case of mismanagement.

colechristensen 4mo ago

It raises the bar to the courts for shareholder control. The Google founders are, lets say, more reliable than Musk when it comes to making sound business decisions.

cryptonector 4mo ago
> The Google founders are, lets say, more reliable than Musk when it comes to making sound business decisions. I've no idea about that and I won't opine. But every time I see that sort of statement it seems likely motivated by the whole Twitter acquisition. Perhaps that was just a toy or vanity project for him, one he could afford, so even if you think he's running X terribly it might have nothing to do with how he's run or would run any other companies that are not related to social media. In other words, what I read into such statements is "I don't like the politics he's brought to Twitter!", "the board should rein in the guy whose politics I don't like!!". It's like saying Bezos is bad at business because he owns the Washington Post -another vanity project- and you don't like the Post. Do people not get bored of that sort of take? Tell me he makes bad business decisions all you want, but in the context of everyone-hates-his-acquisition-of-Twitter I'd like to hear about his other businesses. Tell me something useful, not something political. And, sure, politics at some point bleeds into business. Maybe Trump is out to get Bezos over Washington Post coverage, or maybe the next Democrat President will go after Musk for his politics. It's possible that X will eventually cost him dearly and personally, and it's a solid argument for these billionaires and trillionaires to stay out of politics. Or maybe it's a good argument for them to stay in because maybe by demonstrating electoral influence and power they can make the POTUS-of-the-day fear them enough to not go after them too hard. But if you made any such argument it still wouldn't say tell me anything about the rest of these billionaires' businesses.
- queenkjuul 4mo ago
  Space GPUs are stupid, so is hyperloop, so is the Vegas Loop; robotaxis don't work, cybertruck sucks, the humanoid robots don't work, the new roadster is nowhere to be seen. SpaceX blew up an entire launchpad because Musk thought flame diverters are gay, or something. And, yes, Twitter is now a shithole.
  - christoph 4mo ago
    This doesn’t even include the whole taking money from people for FSD that was JUST 2 years away…
    - karmakurtisaani 4mo ago
      Just wait until 2022 when SpaceX is ready to launch their first mission to Mars.
      - cyberge99 4mo ago
        I guess I’m not going to make it to your launch party four years ago.
        karmakurtisaani 4mo ago
        Don't worry, it's been shifted to 2024 now!
  - johnthewise 4mo ago
    If you do so many things, some are bound to be stupid.
    - phs318u 4mo ago
      While it is true that a broken clock is right twice a day, the inverse is not.
  - 4mo ago

overfeed 4mo ago

> The founders retaining voting control has worked out fine for Alphabet shareholders. Only after the cofounders brought in veteran "adult supervision" who offered guided the company with a steady hand, while Larry and Sergei were safely in their moonshot hobby project play-pens, away from the core products - an arrangement that would greatly benefit shareholders in Musk companies.

Zigurd 4mo ago

Fiduciary duty is meaningless without recourse. The governance structure denies any recourse. A case of breach of fiduciary duty would never make it to trial under the governance structure.