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I see it differently… Apple has chosen to treat the model as a commodity. By making Gemini an implementation detail, they leave the door open to swap it out for

I see it differently… Apple has chosen to treat the model as a commodity. By making Gemini an implementation detail, they leave the door open to swap it out for Anthropic or OpenAI without end-users even knowing or caring. So I think they're creating leverage in any future negotiation.

t0mas88 4mo ago
And at the same time they claim it can't be rolled out in Europe because the DMA would force them to allow selection of other AI providers? Which would not even be true if this was an Apple product built on the models of Google, just like the DMA does not force them to pick a different datacenter of office cleaning provider.
- troupo 4mo ago
  > they claim it can't be rolled out in Europe because the DMA would force them to allow selection of other AI providers They don't claim that. All they said is "later in the EU as we look into privacy and security" after spending two hours saying how private and secure everything is. DMA would force them to allow usage from other apps than their own and other assitants than Siri, especially for on-device models. Edit I stand somewhat corrected but it's regular Apple bullshit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48451012 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48451012
- tansanrao 4mo ago
  Looks like the problem with DMA has more to do with giving full access to other providers outside of the on-device + private cloud compute architecture. The way I interpret the newsroom post [1], Apple doesn't want to give third-party providers full access to user data when the third-party providers cannot run on private cloud compute for privacy reasons, but the EU wants them to offer the choice anyway. [1]: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/06/due-to-dma-siri-ai-delayed-in-eu-for-ios-27-and-ipados-27/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/06/due-to-dma-siri-ai-de...
- matthewfcarlson 4mo ago
  There's a post here: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/06/due-to-dma-siri-ai-delayed-in-eu-for-ios-27-and-ipados-27/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/06/due-to-dma-siri-ai-de... Take it with a grain of salt but I don't think it's other AI providers that Apple is upset about. The DMA would require users to be able install any openclaw like thing onto their device with access to everything that Siri can access today. There are all sorts of arguments to be made here but I can understand why Apple feels this way and wants to offer a good experience here.
  - Gigachad 4mo ago
    Undoubtedly Meta would install themselves as an "AI agent" and then just scrape your whole device for data they can use.
  - troupo 4mo ago
    What good experience? Siri has sucked for over 10 years, completely degrading in the last few, with no way to change it to a more capable assistant. Apple doesn't care about "offering a good experience". Apple cares about vendor lock in. It pisses off even me, a long-time (18 years and counting) Apple user.
    - rTX5CMRXIfFG 4mo ago
      You’re hurling a separate set of UX issues onto the subject of the EU’s deferred inclusion Also is Siri the only thing you’re using in your Apple products that you’re so clueless as to ask “what good experience”? I mean, what kept you in the ecosystem for 18 years and counting?
      - troupo 4mo ago
        > You’re hurling a separate set of UX issues onto the subject of the EU’s deferred inclusion It wasn't me who said "I can understand why Apple feels this way and wants to offer a good experience here." > Also is Siri the only thing you’re using in your Apple products that you’re so clueless as to ask “what good experience”? I mean, what kept you in the ecosystem for 18 years and counting? "How dare you criticize the company whose products you're using"
camillomiller 4mo ago
It’s a bit like when Steve Jobs turned down acquiring Dropbox telling them they’re just a feature, not a product
- kennywinker 4mo ago
  And then they created icloud and now it makes them like $110 billion a year while dropbox makes like $2.5b. I think history has proven them right. (Ok so $110b is all services revenue not just icloud, but icloud’s a solid chunk of that)
  - camillomiller 4mo ago
    I was in the beat at the time. If you had read what pundits were saying at the time you would find countless criticism of Apple's hybris etc... Sounds a LOT like what we read today about LLMs.
MASNeo 4mo ago
That’s exactly what a model should be: Implementation detail.
xnx 4mo ago
> I see it differently… Apple has chosen to treat the model as a commodity It didn't work out well for Yahoo.com. It turned out that Google Search was the value and yahoo.com just skin around it. It might be the same for Apple. Gemini is the valuable part, what particular device you use it on matters less.
- y1n0 4mo ago
  We’re clearly in a different situation at the moment. Google is far from the only useful back end language model provider.
- kennywinker 4mo ago
  Google search was leaps and bounds better than any other search engine when it came along and dominated. Yahoo couldn’t build their own, and nobody else they could buy from compared. As i understand it, no LLM is miles ahead of the others right now, especially when it comes to simple agentic stuff. Hell, Qwen3.6-35B-A3 quantized to 3bits running on an 8 year old consumer GPU handles most agentic stuff fine, if a bit slow. Differences in LLMs boil down to mostly the harness and the compute to run the models. Even for high complexity tasks like coding, the differences between openai, anthropic, google, and the bigger qwen models aren’t that dramatic.
- raincole 4mo ago
  iPhone is a hardware and Apple is a hardware company. So the 'skin' they sell is much more valuable than Yahoo.
aplomb1026 4mo ago
[flagged]
Danox 4mo ago
In time Apple will swap it out for a in house model like many other things they’re swapped out in the last 25 years, Apple appears to be a company that doesn’t waste money and seem to execute long range projects if necessary I don’t think the Google models will be there for long. I think they will be swapped out when the M series GPUs get to the performance level they want.
billbrown 4mo ago
I thought this seemed significant at the time: https://github.com/ml-explore/mlx/pull/1983 https://github.com/ml-explore/mlx/pull/1983

t0mas88 4mo ago

And at the same time they claim it can't be rolled out in Europe because the DMA would force them to allow selection of other AI providers? Which would not even be true if this was an Apple product built on the models of Google, just like the DMA does not force them to pick a different datacenter of office cleaning provider.

troupo 4mo ago
> they claim it can't be rolled out in Europe because the DMA would force them to allow selection of other AI providers They don't claim that. All they said is "later in the EU as we look into privacy and security" after spending two hours saying how private and secure everything is. DMA would force them to allow usage from other apps than their own and other assitants than Siri, especially for on-device models. Edit I stand somewhat corrected but it's regular Apple bullshit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48451012 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48451012
tansanrao 4mo ago
Looks like the problem with DMA has more to do with giving full access to other providers outside of the on-device + private cloud compute architecture. The way I interpret the newsroom post [1], Apple doesn't want to give third-party providers full access to user data when the third-party providers cannot run on private cloud compute for privacy reasons, but the EU wants them to offer the choice anyway. [1]: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/06/due-to-dma-siri-ai-delayed-in-eu-for-ios-27-and-ipados-27/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/06/due-to-dma-siri-ai-de...
matthewfcarlson 4mo ago
There's a post here: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/06/due-to-dma-siri-ai-delayed-in-eu-for-ios-27-and-ipados-27/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/06/due-to-dma-siri-ai-de... Take it with a grain of salt but I don't think it's other AI providers that Apple is upset about. The DMA would require users to be able install any openclaw like thing onto their device with access to everything that Siri can access today. There are all sorts of arguments to be made here but I can understand why Apple feels this way and wants to offer a good experience here.
- Gigachad 4mo ago
  Undoubtedly Meta would install themselves as an "AI agent" and then just scrape your whole device for data they can use.
- troupo 4mo ago
  What good experience? Siri has sucked for over 10 years, completely degrading in the last few, with no way to change it to a more capable assistant. Apple doesn't care about "offering a good experience". Apple cares about vendor lock in. It pisses off even me, a long-time (18 years and counting) Apple user.
  - rTX5CMRXIfFG 4mo ago
    You’re hurling a separate set of UX issues onto the subject of the EU’s deferred inclusion Also is Siri the only thing you’re using in your Apple products that you’re so clueless as to ask “what good experience”? I mean, what kept you in the ecosystem for 18 years and counting?
    - troupo 4mo ago
      > You’re hurling a separate set of UX issues onto the subject of the EU’s deferred inclusion It wasn't me who said "I can understand why Apple feels this way and wants to offer a good experience here." > Also is Siri the only thing you’re using in your Apple products that you’re so clueless as to ask “what good experience”? I mean, what kept you in the ecosystem for 18 years and counting? "How dare you criticize the company whose products you're using"

camillomiller 4mo ago

It’s a bit like when Steve Jobs turned down acquiring Dropbox telling them they’re just a feature, not a product

kennywinker 4mo ago
And then they created icloud and now it makes them like $110 billion a year while dropbox makes like $2.5b. I think history has proven them right. (Ok so $110b is all services revenue not just icloud, but icloud’s a solid chunk of that)
- camillomiller 4mo ago
  I was in the beat at the time. If you had read what pundits were saying at the time you would find countless criticism of Apple's hybris etc... Sounds a LOT like what we read today about LLMs.

MASNeo 4mo ago

That’s exactly what a model should be: Implementation detail.

xnx 4mo ago

> I see it differently… Apple has chosen to treat the model as a commodity It didn't work out well for Yahoo.com. It turned out that Google Search was the value and yahoo.com just skin around it. It might be the same for Apple. Gemini is the valuable part, what particular device you use it on matters less.

y1n0 4mo ago
We’re clearly in a different situation at the moment. Google is far from the only useful back end language model provider.
kennywinker 4mo ago
Google search was leaps and bounds better than any other search engine when it came along and dominated. Yahoo couldn’t build their own, and nobody else they could buy from compared. As i understand it, no LLM is miles ahead of the others right now, especially when it comes to simple agentic stuff. Hell, Qwen3.6-35B-A3 quantized to 3bits running on an 8 year old consumer GPU handles most agentic stuff fine, if a bit slow. Differences in LLMs boil down to mostly the harness and the compute to run the models. Even for high complexity tasks like coding, the differences between openai, anthropic, google, and the bigger qwen models aren’t that dramatic.
raincole 4mo ago
iPhone is a hardware and Apple is a hardware company. So the 'skin' they sell is much more valuable than Yahoo.

aplomb1026 4mo ago

[flagged]

Danox 4mo ago

In time Apple will swap it out for a in house model like many other things they’re swapped out in the last 25 years, Apple appears to be a company that doesn’t waste money and seem to execute long range projects if necessary I don’t think the Google models will be there for long. I think they will be swapped out when the M series GPUs get to the performance level they want.

billbrown 4mo ago

I thought this seemed significant at the time: https://github.com/ml-explore/mlx/pull/1983 https://github.com/ml-explore/mlx/pull/1983