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> execute a Swexit It wouldn’t be full Chexit. Just renegotiating and then rejecting the Schengen chapter. It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillot

> execute a Swexit It wouldn’t be full Chexit. Just renegotiating and then rejecting the Schengen chapter. It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillotine clause.

ceejayoz 5mo ago
Sure, and I didn't shoot you, I just sent a bullet in your direction.
- tonfa 5mo ago
  Especially after we saw how happy the EU was to negotiate (they didn't budge) when https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Swiss_immigration_initiative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Swiss_immigration_initiat... passed. The new initiative is basically the same, but with no leeway to ignore it. (that said I suspect if it passes, there will be something tied to the bilateral referendum in 2027/28 to try to supersede it)
  - JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
    > if it passes, there will be something tied to the bilateral referendum in 2027/28 to try to supersede it This is my thinking, too. If it really comes down to Chexit-or-nothing, we’ll have another referendum.
    - ceejayoz 5mo ago
      That was the UK's thinking, too. "We won't have a hard Brexit! Of course they'll negotiate a plan!"
      - JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
        And then the UK delivered an Article 50 notice. That isn’t something this referendum would force.
        ceejayoz 5mo ago
        The UK's referendum was also non-binding, in theory.
        JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
        > UK's referendum was also non-binding, in theory If SVP gets control of government they’ll probably try to Chexit irrespective of any referendum power. That’s orthogonal to this question.
    - tonfa 5mo ago
      Well there's anyway going to be a referendum about the bilateral. (which is why I find the initiative somewhat stupid, you can vote on the real deal in a few years, about whether people want or do not want to have agreements with the EU, instead of hiding it behind a fake/emotional reason)
ericmay 5mo ago
> It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillotine clause. These kinds of morally-superior, we'll show them, type of attitudes and suggestions are precisely why so many folks have come to be anti-EU. Nevermind the actual other real day-to-day issues with the organization. I'm sure you're also staunchly against Scotland and any referendum to join the EU, and against Catalonia becoming independent as well? Why should Taiwan be an exception and not part of China? Seems many of the EU are of the opinion that "We support sovereignty when it conveniently aligns with my chosen organization". The default and perhaps what is best for democracy is to have many smaller nation states, city states, and the other various confederations and the like. The super-organization of nations into these unwieldy states is in many respects anti-democratic and perhaps only temporary as these large nations and alliances were built precisely to fight other, large nation states.
- JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
  > sure you're also staunchly against Scotland and any referendum to join the EU, and against Catalonia becoming independent as well? Why? I think the first is a good idea and the second fine if that’s what they want.
  - ericmay 5mo ago
    Because those would be breaking up the unions of those countries. It's no different morally or philosophically from Switzerland leaving the EU.
    - AnimalMuppet 5mo ago
      Say what? Switzerland isn't in the EU, how can it leave? It has treaties, but not membership. That doesn't make it "leaving" if they annul the treaties.
      - deleted 5mo ago
        [deleted]
      - 5mo ago
mahkeiro 5mo ago
Schengen is not the free movement clause… sad to see people that don’t even know the difference (free movement existed before Schengen).
- cromka 5mo ago
  It's crazy how people really don't get the difference between free movement and Schengen.
cromka 5mo ago
It's not Schengen. It's Free Movement, the core principle of EEA. You're not in EEA, you don't get free access to EU market. This would be catastrophic to Swiss economy.
- mike_hearn 5mo ago
  It wasn't catastrophic to the British economy. Why would Switzerland be so different?
  - whazor 5mo ago
    Most British people think Brexit is a failure. For Switzerland it would be significantly worse since they are surrounded by Germany, France, Italy, and Austria. So all trucks would be stopped at border. Food prices are already super expensive and this would make it worse.
    - elch 5mo ago
      Prices are not an issue for Switzerland, given that the tariff on pork from Germany, for example, is 347 CHF per 100 kg.
    - mike_hearn 5mo ago
      They think it's a failure because their political class refused to use the new powers to implement the will of the people on immigration, not due to economics (which, again, were not affected).
    - 0xy 5mo ago
      Brexit was a referendum on immigration. It was the number one issue. Yet, successive governments since Brexit have turned immigration up to 11. No wonder they think it's a failure, the will of the people was ignored (and it's having real political blowback, with both major parties about to get reduced to dust according to polling).
ayylemao 5mo ago
its called Switzerleave

> execute a Swexit It wouldn’t be full Chexit. Just renegotiating and then rejecting the Schengen chapter. It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillotine clause.

ceejayoz 5mo ago

Sure, and I didn't shoot you, I just sent a bullet in your direction.

tonfa 5mo ago
Especially after we saw how happy the EU was to negotiate (they didn't budge) when https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Swiss_immigration_initiative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Swiss_immigration_initiat... passed. The new initiative is basically the same, but with no leeway to ignore it. (that said I suspect if it passes, there will be something tied to the bilateral referendum in 2027/28 to try to supersede it)
- JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
  > if it passes, there will be something tied to the bilateral referendum in 2027/28 to try to supersede it This is my thinking, too. If it really comes down to Chexit-or-nothing, we’ll have another referendum.
  - ceejayoz 5mo ago
    That was the UK's thinking, too. "We won't have a hard Brexit! Of course they'll negotiate a plan!"
    - JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
      And then the UK delivered an Article 50 notice. That isn’t something this referendum would force.
      - ceejayoz 5mo ago
        The UK's referendum was also non-binding, in theory.
        JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
        > UK's referendum was also non-binding, in theory If SVP gets control of government they’ll probably try to Chexit irrespective of any referendum power. That’s orthogonal to this question.
  - tonfa 5mo ago
    Well there's anyway going to be a referendum about the bilateral. (which is why I find the initiative somewhat stupid, you can vote on the real deal in a few years, about whether people want or do not want to have agreements with the EU, instead of hiding it behind a fake/emotional reason)

ericmay 5mo ago

> It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillotine clause. These kinds of morally-superior, we'll show them, type of attitudes and suggestions are precisely why so many folks have come to be anti-EU. Nevermind the actual other real day-to-day issues with the organization. I'm sure you're also staunchly against Scotland and any referendum to join the EU, and against Catalonia becoming independent as well? Why should Taiwan be an exception and not part of China? Seems many of the EU are of the opinion that "We support sovereignty when it conveniently aligns with my chosen organization". The default and perhaps what is best for democracy is to have many smaller nation states, city states, and the other various confederations and the like. The super-organization of nations into these unwieldy states is in many respects anti-democratic and perhaps only temporary as these large nations and alliances were built precisely to fight other, large nation states.

JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
> sure you're also staunchly against Scotland and any referendum to join the EU, and against Catalonia becoming independent as well? Why? I think the first is a good idea and the second fine if that’s what they want.
- ericmay 5mo ago
  Because those would be breaking up the unions of those countries. It's no different morally or philosophically from Switzerland leaving the EU.
  - AnimalMuppet 5mo ago
    Say what? Switzerland isn't in the EU, how can it leave? It has treaties, but not membership. That doesn't make it "leaving" if they annul the treaties.
    - deleted 5mo ago
      [deleted]
    - 5mo ago

mahkeiro 5mo ago

Schengen is not the free movement clause… sad to see people that don’t even know the difference (free movement existed before Schengen).

cromka 5mo ago
It's crazy how people really don't get the difference between free movement and Schengen.

cromka 5mo ago

It's not Schengen. It's Free Movement, the core principle of EEA. You're not in EEA, you don't get free access to EU market. This would be catastrophic to Swiss economy.

mike_hearn 5mo ago
It wasn't catastrophic to the British economy. Why would Switzerland be so different?
- whazor 5mo ago
  Most British people think Brexit is a failure. For Switzerland it would be significantly worse since they are surrounded by Germany, France, Italy, and Austria. So all trucks would be stopped at border. Food prices are already super expensive and this would make it worse.
  - elch 5mo ago
    Prices are not an issue for Switzerland, given that the tariff on pork from Germany, for example, is 347 CHF per 100 kg.
  - mike_hearn 5mo ago
    They think it's a failure because their political class refused to use the new powers to implement the will of the people on immigration, not due to economics (which, again, were not affected).
  - 0xy 5mo ago
    Brexit was a referendum on immigration. It was the number one issue. Yet, successive governments since Brexit have turned immigration up to 11. No wonder they think it's a failure, the will of the people was ignored (and it's having real political blowback, with both major parties about to get reduced to dust according to polling).

ayylemao 5mo ago

its called Switzerleave