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Hm. Are there any difference in the consequences for the immigrants, if they are kicked out because of arbitrary population cap, instead of anti-migration laws?
by lukan 5mo ago
Hm. Are there any difference in the consequences for the immigrants, if they are kicked out because of arbitrary population cap, instead of anti-migration laws?
- d1sxeyes 5mo agoAs far as I understand, action begins when the population hits 9.5M, so likely no-one gets kicked out, but fewer new visas will be approved, etc.
- herbst 5mo agoThis. As immigrant I don't feel threatened by this at all. I can't vote, and I wouldn't vote for SVP but as far as I can tell this makes kinda sense.
- lukan 5mo agoI am pretty sure there are many people living in swiss with temporary visa's and those will then be de facto kicked out, if they do not get their permissions extended.
- d1sxeyes 5mo agoEither these are already counted in the 9.5M, or they will continue not to be counted.
- fractallyte 5mo agoWhy would you assume the population cap is arbitrary? There's a calculable limit to the population an area of land can sustain. (Yes, some agricultural practices can mitigate that, but that should also be weighed against culture and history, and how much change is acceptable.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity
- lukan 5mo agoOk, so how to calculate it for switzerland in a non arbitrary way? (Btw. I believe switzerland is not trying to be self sufficient anyway, but donimport lots of stuff, like most other countries do)
- fractallyte 5mo agoThis is covered in the linked article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity#Mathematics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity#Mathematics Other variables to factor in would include cultural/esthetic ones: how much would a population tolerate a reduction in the idyllic/scenic nature of their landscape, merely to accommodate crops for a rising population? (This is what I referred to as "quality of life" in another post.)
- lukan 5mo agoThat math is about animals in a fixed climate who don't do trading. Swiss people do. And that "how much would a population tolerate a reduction in the idyllic/scenic nature of their landscape" is a very arbitary factor that will strongly depend on who you ask.
- fractallyte 5mo agoYou're basically reluctant to accept the fact that such a calculation is possible. That says more about you than the competence of mathematicians and ecologists...
- lukan 5mo agoCan you bring one claim of "mathematicians and ecologists" that their calculation would not be arbitrary? Those things ain't absolutes and human society is not made up of numbers and not calculable. So you can make approximations. And they can be useful or not. But you cannot calculate the perfect size of a human society. That is just arbitrary.
- 5mo ago
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