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I wish there was somewhere I could earnestly and intelligently have discussions about EU related tech and tech policy, but HN isn't it. As you can see already i
by esperent 5mo ago
I wish there was somewhere I could earnestly and intelligently have discussions about EU related tech and tech policy, but HN isn't it. As you can see already in this thread, there's 14 comments besides mine and they are 100% negative, and about 95% low effort/reactionary.
Of course there's a lot to criticize and also to appreciate about the EU. But this is supposed to be a forum for intelligent, thoughtful discussion and yet as soon as the EU gets mentioned it basically turns into reddit.
- scihuber 5mo ago[dead]
- omnimus 5mo agoIt's not only HN. You can see big tech media hate against any effort europe does. Everybody is mocking europe for building 10 years old chip fabs or their measly small unusable clouds or bad startup scene. It's interesting because not that long ago nobody cared about what europe did in tech. Or more like everybody was fine with the fact that europe imported computers and exported something else. It was like that forever. I am not sure where this is coming from. It almost seems like even these weak efforts might mess up with somebodys business.
- earthnail 5mo agoIt’s even more interesting because a big supply chain problem during Covid were related to old chips used in tons of mechanical engineering products, like cars. Given that experience you could argue that the old fabs are much better value for money for resiliency.
- sunshine-o 5mo agoAsianometry just released a video about this: The EU Chips Act is a Failure [0] Definitely the most cynical video he ever released. - [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqoX9OIR-DI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqoX9OIR-DI
- omnimus 5mo agoIs cynical? I see lot of mocking in the comments but the video is basically saying to focus on the uncool older stable stuff and use that for stability. The very not recommended path there is to jump on hype of AI chips and fund some random Mistral AI chips.
- shevy-java 5mo agoThe thing is that Europe needs to really decouple as much as possible from crazy dictatorships such as Russia or the USA. US companies are part of that toolbox of containment that the USA is presently doing against Europeans. Sooner or later Europe will wake up. Right now we still have too many lobbyists but this will change - at the latest when key lobbyists are put in jail for many decades. Sadly this also means the current EU commission has to go to jail too.
- scihuber 5mo agoUnfortunately, even figures such as the leaders of the United States or Russia — or their associates — won’t end up behind bars either.
- nickslaughter02 5mo agoDon't forget to say Russia is behind it.
- esperent 5mo agoI didn't say that because I don't think it. Honestly, I expect it's mostly Americans plus a couple of self deprecating Europeans making these comments.
- PurpleRamen 5mo agoThere is a type of videos, where people mock US-citizens for their ignorance about the rest of the world and how things are working there. Those mocking EU for their efforts, usually have that same smell.
- zoul 5mo agoMastodon works fairly well for that I think.
- teroshan 5mo agoIs there a specific instance that you believe would be most suited to discover like-minded individuals on this particular subject? https://fosstodon.org https://fosstodon.org seems like a good fit but is invite-only
- zoul 5mo agoAny instance will work I think, just start following someone like https://eupolicy.social/@bert_hubert https://eupolicy.social/@bert_hubert and you should discover relevant people and hashtags soon enough.
- shevy-java 5mo ago> Of course there's a lot to criticize and also to appreciate about the EU. But this is supposed to be a forum for intelligent, thoughtful discussion and yet as soon as the EU gets mentioned it basically turns into reddit. You dislike criticism? I find criticism an important part of discourse and discussion. HN is very clearly not anything like reddit - just the insane amount of censorship on reddit alone, is already one argument against that claim. Many more could be given. I have been using reddit in the past for many years, so I know how reddit changed. Not that everything is perfect on hackernews; I dislike the "you are posting too much" limitation, for instance. But we don't have over-eager censor-mods here whereas that was locking down numerous interesting discussions on reddit. With regards to the EU situation: the EU is in a very strange situation. On the one hand it is doing good things; this then gets cancelled by the EU commission acting as a pure lobbyist group, as well as a huge army of bureaucrats who want more and more money and dream about assimilating more and more countries, which makes zero sense. Whether the EU will succeed with regards to their open source strategy or not, who knows. What I do know is that individual countries, such as France or the Netherlands, are quite intelligent when it comes to good decisions (Germany is absolutely undermined by lobbyists, so it is totally paralysed here); I am not convinced the EU is in a similar situation. It would have to be reformed, but people in Brussels don't want to see their job axxed away, so nothing will improve here. My recommendation is that if you are unhappy, go and talk about it - but don't expect others to turn to your assumptions about how a discussion should happen when it comes to the EU, because they may not share your opinion here.
- esperent 5mo ago> You dislike criticism No, I love criticism, as long as it's balanced and thoughtful, and invites discussion rather than being knee-jerk reactionary. Please read my comment more carefully.
- ExoticPearTree 5mo ago> No, I love criticism, as long as it's balanced and thoughtful, and invites discussion You forgot to add "and it matches my worldview of things". Knee-jerk criticism is very fine, like "Microsoft sucks" anytime someone mentions Microsoft. You can just ignore it and move on.
- nickslaughter02 5mo ago[flagged]
- FinnKuhn 5mo agoThe DMA is a great initiative for more market competition.
- nickslaughter02 5mo agoGreat, now I can install an app on iOS without having Apple's approval or cut, right? No, you cannot. You still report and pay fees to Apple. This is the general trend: EU regulates something it doesn't understand and the result is a mess that companies need to deal with. https://www.macrumors.com/2025/06/26/app-store-eu-rule-change-dma https://www.macrumors.com/2025/06/26/app-store-eu-rule-chang...
- ExoticPearTree 5mo ago[flagged]
- iamacyborg 5mo ago> Instead of letting the best product win by consumer choice, they're forcing every messaging product to become mediocre. Do you really believe products win because they’re the best? I’d strongly argue that monopolistic power and loss-leading VC investment is what drives success.
- ExoticPearTree 5mo agoYes. This is why, for example Whatsapp is the most used messaging app in the world: it is lightweight and super simple. It could have been any number of apps, but they won fair and square. This was the first example that comes to mind. And hardware wise I would argue the iPhone is the best phone because so many people buy it compared to other alternatives. And I don't believe for a second people buy because iMessage.
- 5mo ago
- ExoticPearTree 5mo agoI guess the hate is because the EU also invented the following monstrosities: - CRA (cyber resiliency act): Manufacturers must handle and release security patches for vulnerabilities, and developers are required to report actively on exploited vulnerabilities and breaches. - PLD (Product Liability Directive): A failure to provide critical security updates or the presence of exploitable vulnerabilities can now legally constitute a "defect" and if defective software causes physical harm or property damage, manufacturers are strictly liable and cannot contractually exclude or limit this liability. And the kicker is this: Non-commercial open-source software is generally exempt from these commercial liability frameworks. However, if an open-source component is integrated into a commercial, for-profit product, the responsibility shifts to the corporate manufacturer. So good luck making some money of your open source project where the risk outweighs any potential profit, or integrate an open source project into your commercial offering.
- Kinrany 5mo agoAll of this makes perfect sense
- sam_lowry_ 5mo agoThere was so much more they could do... like 25 years before requiring detachable batteries, they should have required selling the OS separately.
- mjanx123 5mo agoIIRC Microsoft has a no liability clause in its licenses. How did they react to this?
- snowpid 5mo ago? Usually the clauses arent valid from the contracts and you can sue Microsoft on court. What did you expect?
- earthnail 5mo agoSounds like plausible clauses to me? Please explain why they are so toxic. What cases are there where these clauses present an unfair threat or disadvantage to a business? In case it is unclear from my tone, I am genuinely curious.
- pi-err 5mo agoTrue but it also reflects that the EU has indeed destroyed most goodwill towards it in the last decade regarding most things digital. Most EU initiatives have damaged everyday UX on the web and in tech. Yes, some malicious compliance has played a role by over-reacting to well-intended regulations. But overall the EU has brought this upon itself. This specific Open Source Strategy memo is typical. It's in fact not a strategy but a list of key goals and requirements, put together in technocratic jargon. It will have zero effect on the actual open source ecosystem.
- snowpid 5mo ago" True but it also reflects that the EU has indeed destroyed most goodwill towards it in the last decade regarding most things digital. " And these criticism destroys any goodwill from me. These are non topics my among political diverse friends. Most people criticise the EU internet regulations are American cry babys. Their arguments are shallow, their knowledge about EU is low.
- dash2 5mo agoIf your friends have never said “man I hate these cookie popups”, they sound like a highly selected group.
- whilenot-dev 5mo agoDon't be silly, the legislation doesn't state that websites have to show cookie popups. It's rather where the term malicious compliance enters the picture, a compliance incentivized by the financial interests of the biggest advertising businesses the world has ever seen.
- lukan 5mo agoSo instead of adressing the article and provide the potential base for a intelligent debate, you decided to raise the bar by lamenting? My impression in general is that there is rather a very EU friendly view here on HN in general, but HN is critical of everything. So I also say, lot's of nice words, great that they at least start so late with that now, but more concrete steps would be more welcome. "Making public administrations anchor users and contributors to open source, through procurement guidance, open-source friendly tendering, strengthening the Open Source Programme Office and its networks, reusable public digital assets and by embedding openness and sovereignty in digital investment decisions" Because this for example sounds great. But is it very concrete? It sounds like it, but I don't see how it is.
- lnsru 5mo ago[flagged]
- lenkite 5mo agoThat's because American BigTech Bros are afraid of the below and will take every opportunity to diss on it. "Support uptake of open source alternatives to proprietary solutions together with Member States and the Digital Commons EDIC — cloud, workplace tools, secure e-mail, decentralised social media."
- Tharre 5mo agoWhat points could we even discuss? It's all terribly vague and I imagine nobody here can even tell how that supposed 'strategy' is different from the one 5 years ago. And half of the things mentioned there, like the EUDI Wallet or age verification have been heavily criticised for good reasons. If the headline was "EU invests 100B into open source to further independence from US", I imagine things would be different. But right now it's "we have intentions to have plans about tech and open source in the EU sometime in the future".
- port11 5mo agoIt’s a PR website meant for… people that read PR websites. The agencies downstream that will spend 4 million euros comparing LibreOffice with OpenOffice are the ones doing some of the work. I think it’s okay for the institutions to signal something positive, as long as they actually back it up later.
- stogot 5mo agoIf you create one, I would join Free to copy this code base https://github.com/lobsters/lobsters https://github.com/lobsters/lobsters
- mrdevlar 5mo agoHonestly, as a European, I am okay with this. I want the US tech community to continue thinking of us as some sort of technological backwater. Ridiculing and deriding us, so they never see as any place where they are welcome. Since given the last ten years, they pretty much aren't. There's basically little to nothing that US tech services have to offer Europe.
- _the_inflator 5mo agoWith the European Chips Act I already a total disaster, please help me with your intelligence, thoughtful discussion to explain the feasibility of miracles to me in rational terms, since the EU is obviously oblivious to the fact, that they are delusional and hubris might be a better term to explain, what "the EU" wants to achieve - and maintain. BTW, the EU also plans for a energy transformation, being a military powerhouse, surveillance state - what else could be wish into reality?
- kyboren 5mo agoSovereign manufacturing supply chains? A competitive EV company? A competitive space launcher? How about a healthy native birth rate and relatively low levels of immigration? But to create that many strategies, you're gonna need a huge EU bureaucracy. So better create a strategy to reduce the growth of EU bureaucracy, too.
- PurpleRamen 5mo agoHN is full of people which EU is fighting against, so of course is there little chance to find sane discussions here. You could try some european subreddits, or local tech-sites from Europe, there is usually a better chance to find people who benefit from EU-regulations and have a more rational view on them.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- throw-the-towel 5mo agoEven on HN we're still human, and have the same human weaknesses and failure modes.
- throwaway67678 5mo agoA huge chunk of HN is 20-something kids who are way too online and parrot in earnest Polandball-style memes like "Germany doesn't have freedom of speech" or "France has too much regulation". They are fine to discuss tech with but I wouldn't take their opinions on politics or culture seriously