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> The Strawberry Example Is this really the best example the author could come up with? If you want fresh strawberries, you can just go to a supermarket and bu

> The Strawberry Example Is this really the best example the author could come up with? If you want fresh strawberries, you can just go to a supermarket and buy them. In many places you can get a few pounds per for less than the money you earn in one hour. It's pretty much a heaven compared to pre-industrial days. But I guess the analogy of fracking is pretty spot on, just in a way the author didn't realize -- the cons are often exaggerated.

Schlagbohrer 4mo ago
They also grow extremely well in many climates across the northern US and are good at self-perpetuation. They're a fantastic balcony plant since their crawlers will hang down and offer fruit to a downstairs neighbor.
- zigman1 4mo ago
  What if you are not from the northern US?
  - swiftcoder 4mo ago
    They grow fine in pretty much all of Europe, and most of South America - you may need to find a mountain to grow them on if very close to the equator. I imagine most of the rest of the world fair similarly.
  - Schlagbohrer 4mo ago
    Perhaps there are other plants you can grow where ever you are?
- SirHumphrey 4mo ago
  Woodland strawberries grow even better somehow. We used to have them planted at the garden, then a few years ago we removed them and planted something else and this year I was surprised to find that they somehow survived and moved a few meters away from where they originally were. They also taste better in my opinion.
zeafoamrun 4mo ago
I was hoping for some examples of dopamine fracking of online communities as they said but was also disappointed.
layer8 4mo ago
Supermarket strawberries are often bad with not a lot of taste, and little variety, which is a result of their commodification.
- Traubenfuchs 4mo ago
  Slightly strawberry flavored fiber sponges.
- Gigachad 4mo ago
  I’ve had home grown strawberries and they are certainly sweeter, but they are smaller. And I can’t say being sweeter is actually better. If I was cutting up strawberries to put in a yogurt, I think I’d actually rather commercially produced large but less sweet strawberries.
veunes 4mo ago
I don't think the point of the strawberry example is that industrialization failed to make strawberries cheaper or more available. It obviously did the opposite in many places. The point is more about what gets selected for when the whole system optimizes for scale, consistency, shelf life, lowest acceptable cost
brikym 4mo ago
> If you want fresh strawberries, you can just go to a supermarket and buy them Whut? It's a perfectly relatable example. Commercial fruit genetics are selected for shipping and shelf life. Nutrients and taste come way down the list of priorities. I've noticed the strawberries in my supermarket have a more consistent quality every year. Consistently awful. It seems like one company have taken over the market and the berries are hard and bland. But they look nice. As each layer of the chain consolidates it forces adjacent layers to consolidate and you end up with sameness. The small strawberry companies probably went bust because the big supermarkets pushed hard. Now I have to buy my strawberries from a roadside farmer and they're great.
- almogo 4mo ago
  If the corporate berries are really so bad, the invisible hand will push the company in the direction of society's aggregate wallet vote. Sounds like most people are fine with them. Outside of truly autocratic systems, sounds like these berries are WAI.
  - chownie 4mo ago
    Other possibilities: * The people are not fine with bad strawberries but have no other choices available * The people are not fine with bad strawberries but can't afford better choices * The people are not fine with bad strawberries but they don't know good strawberries * The people are not fine with bad strawberries but they're cheap enough to ship and sell that there's no economic case for good strawberries, so no one close enough to buy from will sell good strawberries to them "The market seems fine with it" is kind of a lazy thought terminating cliche answer. What if the invisible hand of the market is pushing strawberry producers towards the outcome "society no longer values this enough to buy it" in which case the aggregate wallet vote will be zero?
    - JohnBooty 4mo ago
      The people are not fine with bad strawberries but they don't know good strawberries You most definitely get this phenomenon with tomatoes. There’s little demand for actually good tomatoes, because most people don’t even know what a good tomato tastes like at this point. This applies to countless things, but tomatoes are a prime example because they deteriorate so quickly once picked relative to other fruits I guess. So they have completely bred the flavor out of them in a quest to achieve something that looks good on a supermarket shelf.
paganel 4mo ago
> If you want fresh strawberries, you can just go to a supermarket and buy them. And they all taste watery, i.e. almost no taste at all, all this as a result of the industrialisation of strawberry farming. Which means that it was a good enough example for me.
JohnBooty 4mo ago
I have a friend who works in the flavor and fragrance industry and one of the things strawberry fragrance is used for is… (drum roll) actual strawberries. Yep, a light spritz of strawberry scent on actual fucking strawberries apparently makes them more appealing.
john-h-k 4mo ago
Yeah it’s a weird example. Perfectly possible real strawberries with all their complexity extract more dopamine!
hart_russell 4mo ago
I can tell you haven’t eaten a home grown strawberry before, because they’re not comparable.
Stefan-H 4mo ago
My issue with the strawberry example is different than yours - the items the author listed that we miss out on ("The texture, the juiciness, the complexity of the flavor, the imperfections, the joy of finding a particularly good one, the cosmic horror of eating a wormy one, the nostalgia of having your grandma's strawberry jam with dozens of individually unique strawberries in it.") amount to little of objective value. I would argue the greatest value that eating a real strawberry as opposed to a fake strawberry product provided was this very article. Where else has "memory of texture and flavor combinations" been brought to bear? I can agree that there is virtue in having tasty and interesting things to eat, but I don't see how missing out on a specific combination is all that terrible.

Schlagbohrer 4mo ago

They also grow extremely well in many climates across the northern US and are good at self-perpetuation. They're a fantastic balcony plant since their crawlers will hang down and offer fruit to a downstairs neighbor.

zigman1 4mo ago
What if you are not from the northern US?
- swiftcoder 4mo ago
  They grow fine in pretty much all of Europe, and most of South America - you may need to find a mountain to grow them on if very close to the equator. I imagine most of the rest of the world fair similarly.
- Schlagbohrer 4mo ago
  Perhaps there are other plants you can grow where ever you are?
SirHumphrey 4mo ago
Woodland strawberries grow even better somehow. We used to have them planted at the garden, then a few years ago we removed them and planted something else and this year I was surprised to find that they somehow survived and moved a few meters away from where they originally were. They also taste better in my opinion.

zeafoamrun 4mo ago

I was hoping for some examples of dopamine fracking of online communities as they said but was also disappointed.

layer8 4mo ago

Supermarket strawberries are often bad with not a lot of taste, and little variety, which is a result of their commodification.

Traubenfuchs 4mo ago
Slightly strawberry flavored fiber sponges.
Gigachad 4mo ago
I’ve had home grown strawberries and they are certainly sweeter, but they are smaller. And I can’t say being sweeter is actually better. If I was cutting up strawberries to put in a yogurt, I think I’d actually rather commercially produced large but less sweet strawberries.

veunes 4mo ago

I don't think the point of the strawberry example is that industrialization failed to make strawberries cheaper or more available. It obviously did the opposite in many places. The point is more about what gets selected for when the whole system optimizes for scale, consistency, shelf life, lowest acceptable cost

brikym 4mo ago

> If you want fresh strawberries, you can just go to a supermarket and buy them Whut? It's a perfectly relatable example. Commercial fruit genetics are selected for shipping and shelf life. Nutrients and taste come way down the list of priorities. I've noticed the strawberries in my supermarket have a more consistent quality every year. Consistently awful. It seems like one company have taken over the market and the berries are hard and bland. But they look nice. As each layer of the chain consolidates it forces adjacent layers to consolidate and you end up with sameness. The small strawberry companies probably went bust because the big supermarkets pushed hard. Now I have to buy my strawberries from a roadside farmer and they're great.

almogo 4mo ago
If the corporate berries are really so bad, the invisible hand will push the company in the direction of society's aggregate wallet vote. Sounds like most people are fine with them. Outside of truly autocratic systems, sounds like these berries are WAI.
- chownie 4mo ago
  Other possibilities: * The people are not fine with bad strawberries but have no other choices available * The people are not fine with bad strawberries but can't afford better choices * The people are not fine with bad strawberries but they don't know good strawberries * The people are not fine with bad strawberries but they're cheap enough to ship and sell that there's no economic case for good strawberries, so no one close enough to buy from will sell good strawberries to them "The market seems fine with it" is kind of a lazy thought terminating cliche answer. What if the invisible hand of the market is pushing strawberry producers towards the outcome "society no longer values this enough to buy it" in which case the aggregate wallet vote will be zero?
  - JohnBooty 4mo ago
    The people are not fine with bad strawberries but they don't know good strawberries You most definitely get this phenomenon with tomatoes. There’s little demand for actually good tomatoes, because most people don’t even know what a good tomato tastes like at this point. This applies to countless things, but tomatoes are a prime example because they deteriorate so quickly once picked relative to other fruits I guess. So they have completely bred the flavor out of them in a quest to achieve something that looks good on a supermarket shelf.

paganel 4mo ago

> If you want fresh strawberries, you can just go to a supermarket and buy them. And they all taste watery, i.e. almost no taste at all, all this as a result of the industrialisation of strawberry farming. Which means that it was a good enough example for me.

JohnBooty 4mo ago

I have a friend who works in the flavor and fragrance industry and one of the things strawberry fragrance is used for is… (drum roll) actual strawberries. Yep, a light spritz of strawberry scent on actual fucking strawberries apparently makes them more appealing.

john-h-k 4mo ago

Yeah it’s a weird example. Perfectly possible real strawberries with all their complexity extract more dopamine!

hart_russell 4mo ago

I can tell you haven’t eaten a home grown strawberry before, because they’re not comparable.

Stefan-H 4mo ago

My issue with the strawberry example is different than yours - the items the author listed that we miss out on ("The texture, the juiciness, the complexity of the flavor, the imperfections, the joy of finding a particularly good one, the cosmic horror of eating a wormy one, the nostalgia of having your grandma's strawberry jam with dozens of individually unique strawberries in it.") amount to little of objective value. I would argue the greatest value that eating a real strawberry as opposed to a fake strawberry product provided was this very article. Where else has "memory of texture and flavor combinations" been brought to bear? I can agree that there is virtue in having tasty and interesting things to eat, but I don't see how missing out on a specific combination is all that terrible.