4 ms·

"Woah, I cajoled a chatbot into building something I don't understand at all, I'm so good at my job!" That ship sailed when people started using compilers and

"Woah, I cajoled a chatbot into building something I don't understand at all, I'm so good at my job!" That ship sailed when people started using compilers and stopped learning assembly language.

dodu_ 5mo ago
Never really understood this comparison, as it always felt intentionally obtuse to me, but thanks for replying, friend!
- CamperBob2 5mo ago
  Your confusion probably comes down to a well-intentioned but now-obsolete focus on determinism.
  - dodu_ 5mo ago
    Why is it a mistake to value determinism, or in your words "focus on" it? Why is this alternative better?
    - CamperBob2 5mo ago
      Because your competitors are using the alternative methodology, however scary it may be, to beat you.
      - californical 5mo ago
        Are there really companies losing right now for using less AI? Think - would you rather your telecom company’s customer support be AI-forward? Would you pay an extra $5 per month to ensure that you get humans solving your problems immediately when you call with an issue? What about your backup software? Would you rather choose the company that comes out with new innovations in backing up your data and tons of features, but occasionally breaks everything? Or would you want to choose a company for backup software that is slow at adding anything new and reliable? Isn’t it good if this is deterministic? What about even a fitness tracking watch. Are there really that many missing features that need to be released way faster? Or is it better if it just tracks your heart rate and workouts well and then gets out of your way? Same here, don’t you want the features to be reliable and deterministic?
        CamperBob2 5mo ago
        I'd be fine with an LLM for customer support, as long as it's empowered to solve my problem. There's nothing a low-level CS representative does that couldn't be handled by an LLM. In both cases, the limiting factor is the authority granted to them by their employer. Nobody uses an LLM for watches or data backup AFAIK so those seem like moot points.
        boston_clone 5mo ago
        >There's nothing a low-level CS representative does that couldn't be handled by an LLM. This kind of reductionist take is an immediate tell that one has no experience in that kind of role. More worryingly, it hints of something antisocial and misanthropic. Do you not enjoy talking with other people during your day? Have you never experienced the resolution of complexity or ambiguity from a person that is intimately familiar with a product, its documentation, or internal processes?
        oblio 5mo ago
        Are you shocked that techbros (and especially their CEO leaders) are misanthropists? We have probably empowered the most society adverse group of people in human history. Ones that didn't even need to speak to other humans to become rich.
        boston_clone 5mo ago
        no, not shocked; just willing to check that perspective more publicly than most. the vonnegut quote is hitting hard today - “why don’t you go online and buy a hundred envelopes and put them in the closet? And so I pretend not to hear her. And go out to get an envelope because I’m going to have a hell of a good time in the process of buying one envelope. I meet a lot of people. And, see some great looking babes. And a fire engine goes by. And I give them the thumbs up. And, and ask a woman what kind of dog that is. And, and I don’t know. The moral of the story is, is we’re here on Earth to fart around. And, of course, the computers will do us out of that. And, what the computer people don’t realize, or they don’t care, is we’re dancing animals.”
dinkumthinkum 5mo ago
So, this is a complete nonsense take. Why do people keep making this kind of comparison? Is there really such a lack of critical thinking being taught these days?
- CamperBob2 5mo ago
  What you were taught no longer matters, compared to what some of the rest of have learned over the past couple of years. Sorry. Shoot the messenger if it makes you feel better, but it won't change anything.
  - tavavex 5mo ago
    This comment has no substance to it. It's the same as posting "I am right and you are wrong. 'Sorry' if me being right makes you feel bad, but you are wrong." People are asking legitimate questions whenever this is brought up, because the comparison is wrong. Compilers are an optimization of the previous paradigm, they let you do the exact same thing as what was done in the preceding decades, just faster. LLMs are not that, they are just a completely separate thing that exists alongside regular programming. Arguing that their use isn't just another option, but a superior and total replacement doesn't explain why you think that randomness is a perfect substitute for determinism. The only people I see promoting this view are ones who only want to look at graphs where lines are going up without caring about anything else. Because I think that even if LLMs get 10 times better, we'll still have industries and use cases where determinism will dominate, ones where you get one take to get things right. For instance, I would not fly on a plane with firmware that was created by a guy hitting Generate, going for a coffee break, coming back and saying "yea looks good".

"Woah, I cajoled a chatbot into building something I don't understand at all, I'm so good at my job!" That ship sailed when people started using compilers and stopped learning assembly language.

dodu_ 5mo ago

Never really understood this comparison, as it always felt intentionally obtuse to me, but thanks for replying, friend!

CamperBob2 5mo ago
Your confusion probably comes down to a well-intentioned but now-obsolete focus on determinism.
- dodu_ 5mo ago
  Why is it a mistake to value determinism, or in your words "focus on" it? Why is this alternative better?
  - CamperBob2 5mo ago
    Because your competitors are using the alternative methodology, however scary it may be, to beat you.
    - californical 5mo ago
      Are there really companies losing right now for using less AI? Think - would you rather your telecom company’s customer support be AI-forward? Would you pay an extra $5 per month to ensure that you get humans solving your problems immediately when you call with an issue? What about your backup software? Would you rather choose the company that comes out with new innovations in backing up your data and tons of features, but occasionally breaks everything? Or would you want to choose a company for backup software that is slow at adding anything new and reliable? Isn’t it good if this is deterministic? What about even a fitness tracking watch. Are there really that many missing features that need to be released way faster? Or is it better if it just tracks your heart rate and workouts well and then gets out of your way? Same here, don’t you want the features to be reliable and deterministic?
      - CamperBob2 5mo ago
        I'd be fine with an LLM for customer support, as long as it's empowered to solve my problem. There's nothing a low-level CS representative does that couldn't be handled by an LLM. In both cases, the limiting factor is the authority granted to them by their employer. Nobody uses an LLM for watches or data backup AFAIK so those seem like moot points.
        boston_clone 5mo ago
        >There's nothing a low-level CS representative does that couldn't be handled by an LLM. This kind of reductionist take is an immediate tell that one has no experience in that kind of role. More worryingly, it hints of something antisocial and misanthropic. Do you not enjoy talking with other people during your day? Have you never experienced the resolution of complexity or ambiguity from a person that is intimately familiar with a product, its documentation, or internal processes?
        oblio 5mo ago
        Are you shocked that techbros (and especially their CEO leaders) are misanthropists? We have probably empowered the most society adverse group of people in human history. Ones that didn't even need to speak to other humans to become rich.
        boston_clone 5mo ago
        no, not shocked; just willing to check that perspective more publicly than most. the vonnegut quote is hitting hard today - “why don’t you go online and buy a hundred envelopes and put them in the closet? And so I pretend not to hear her. And go out to get an envelope because I’m going to have a hell of a good time in the process of buying one envelope. I meet a lot of people. And, see some great looking babes. And a fire engine goes by. And I give them the thumbs up. And, and ask a woman what kind of dog that is. And, and I don’t know. The moral of the story is, is we’re here on Earth to fart around. And, of course, the computers will do us out of that. And, what the computer people don’t realize, or they don’t care, is we’re dancing animals.”

dinkumthinkum 5mo ago

So, this is a complete nonsense take. Why do people keep making this kind of comparison? Is there really such a lack of critical thinking being taught these days?

CamperBob2 5mo ago
What you were taught no longer matters, compared to what some of the rest of have learned over the past couple of years. Sorry. Shoot the messenger if it makes you feel better, but it won't change anything.
- tavavex 5mo ago
  This comment has no substance to it. It's the same as posting "I am right and you are wrong. 'Sorry' if me being right makes you feel bad, but you are wrong." People are asking legitimate questions whenever this is brought up, because the comparison is wrong. Compilers are an optimization of the previous paradigm, they let you do the exact same thing as what was done in the preceding decades, just faster. LLMs are not that, they are just a completely separate thing that exists alongside regular programming. Arguing that their use isn't just another option, but a superior and total replacement doesn't explain why you think that randomness is a perfect substitute for determinism. The only people I see promoting this view are ones who only want to look at graphs where lines are going up without caring about anything else. Because I think that even if LLMs get 10 times better, we'll still have industries and use cases where determinism will dominate, ones where you get one take to get things right. For instance, I would not fly on a plane with firmware that was created by a guy hitting Generate, going for a coffee break, coming back and saying "yea looks good".