4 ms·

> eventually the chickens come home to roost and you realise what a mess you made But a lot of times they don't. Devs building websites for small businesses us

> eventually the chickens come home to roost and you realise what a mess you made But a lot of times they don't. Devs building websites for small businesses used to be a thing, and it was almost universally a crap product. Practically every restaurant in my small town has been able to take control of their own website with AI, and it's a better experience for everyone. Rapid digitisation meant a lot of low-value work wound up being done by high-value people. The economy is pivoting away from that configuration. The high-value folks getting displaced are pissed, partly rightly, partly out of spite. The folks who had to pay those bills are ecstatic, mostly overexuberantly, but in part correctly.

camillomiller 5mo ago
Until what they need is free or has a heavily subsidized cost. We keep forgetting that
- hparadiz 5mo ago
  I can use a local model to build a restaurant website. The model generates code fast enough that even my 10 year old server can generate all the code needed in about an hour. It will use about 50 cents of electricity and be better than 90% of the restaurant websites out there.
  - dd8601fn 5mo ago
    I’m curious what you’re using for that (if you’re inclined to share).
    - hparadiz 5mo ago
      I saw that blog post about running local models on a Xeon based server so I benchmarked a bunch of local models on it. The server is dual Xeons with 256 GB of DDR4 and I found it capable of running some things locally. It's slow but still faster than coding things manually. Also that was just an example. Even my 6 year old 6900XT is faster.
  - camillomiller 5mo ago
    How is that relevant? The convenience for restaurants owners is how easy, cheap, non-technical, and fast the process is. You proceeded to make a point that does not match any of these four prerequisites
mattmanser 5mo ago
That era is already long gone. Those things have been built in Wix for over a decade. And since then, I haven't had any friends or family ask me for a simple site. The low-value work is already automated. Your comment is valid, but not for the reason you think. What you should be talking about is the grunt work done in our field to non-trivial applications. Adding a search box to a table, or add an extra field to a form, etc. So you think about a ticket that often might take a few hours, but in badly architected system might take a week, add a field to a class, edit the DB structure (maybe manually, maybe through via an ORM generated migration), add it to DTOs, add a validator, add it to the FE definitions, edit the page layout, etc.. Low value work that until now had to be performed by high-value employees.
- JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
  > Low value work that until now had to be performed by high-value employees The current trend is a proliferation of internal tooling. I've honestly found quite a bit of it useful. The rest is the usual should-have-been-a-Google-form nonsense.
- josephg 5mo ago
  > That era is already long gone. Those things have been built in Wix for over a decade. I think there's still a lot more custom work than you'd expect. A recent example: My mum is ex-president of a small international NGO. When I visited earlier today, she was bemoaning how the lady who runs their NGO's website charges them an arm and a leg for small changes. As a result, the website is constantly out of date. The current site is entirely built on top of wordpress. There is, of course, politics. This lady holds the login credentials to everything. And she holds them close to her chest. I showed my mum what we could do with claude design. Claude whipped up a much better looking, working version of (part) of the website in about 5 minutes. I think LLMs aren't quite at the point that my mum could manage the website herself. You do need a little technical knowledge. My mum just doesn't know what to ask for. But we're really close. I've offered to be a human frontend to LLMs for them going forward, if she can wrest control from the "webmaster". I suspect conversations like this are happening everywhere at the moment. There are an incredible number of small websites out there. Most of them, claude or chatgpt could reimplement in 5 minutes tops.

camillomiller 5mo ago

Until what they need is free or has a heavily subsidized cost. We keep forgetting that

hparadiz 5mo ago
I can use a local model to build a restaurant website. The model generates code fast enough that even my 10 year old server can generate all the code needed in about an hour. It will use about 50 cents of electricity and be better than 90% of the restaurant websites out there.
- dd8601fn 5mo ago
  I’m curious what you’re using for that (if you’re inclined to share).
  - hparadiz 5mo ago
    I saw that blog post about running local models on a Xeon based server so I benchmarked a bunch of local models on it. The server is dual Xeons with 256 GB of DDR4 and I found it capable of running some things locally. It's slow but still faster than coding things manually. Also that was just an example. Even my 6 year old 6900XT is faster.
- camillomiller 5mo ago
  How is that relevant? The convenience for restaurants owners is how easy, cheap, non-technical, and fast the process is. You proceeded to make a point that does not match any of these four prerequisites

mattmanser 5mo ago

That era is already long gone. Those things have been built in Wix for over a decade. And since then, I haven't had any friends or family ask me for a simple site. The low-value work is already automated. Your comment is valid, but not for the reason you think. What you should be talking about is the grunt work done in our field to non-trivial applications. Adding a search box to a table, or add an extra field to a form, etc. So you think about a ticket that often might take a few hours, but in badly architected system might take a week, add a field to a class, edit the DB structure (maybe manually, maybe through via an ORM generated migration), add it to DTOs, add a validator, add it to the FE definitions, edit the page layout, etc.. Low value work that until now had to be performed by high-value employees.

JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
> Low value work that until now had to be performed by high-value employees The current trend is a proliferation of internal tooling. I've honestly found quite a bit of it useful. The rest is the usual should-have-been-a-Google-form nonsense.
josephg 5mo ago
> That era is already long gone. Those things have been built in Wix for over a decade. I think there's still a lot more custom work than you'd expect. A recent example: My mum is ex-president of a small international NGO. When I visited earlier today, she was bemoaning how the lady who runs their NGO's website charges them an arm and a leg for small changes. As a result, the website is constantly out of date. The current site is entirely built on top of wordpress. There is, of course, politics. This lady holds the login credentials to everything. And she holds them close to her chest. I showed my mum what we could do with claude design. Claude whipped up a much better looking, working version of (part) of the website in about 5 minutes. I think LLMs aren't quite at the point that my mum could manage the website herself. You do need a little technical knowledge. My mum just doesn't know what to ask for. But we're really close. I've offered to be a human frontend to LLMs for them going forward, if she can wrest control from the "webmaster". I suspect conversations like this are happening everywhere at the moment. There are an incredible number of small websites out there. Most of them, claude or chatgpt could reimplement in 5 minutes tops.