7 ms·

It's notable that the original list with the extra 180 religions was from Trump's first term, so this is another example of the doubling down on white Christian

by slg 4mo ago

It's notable that the original list with the extra 180 religions was from Trump's first term, so this is another example of the doubling down on white Christian identity politics that has come to define Trump's second term. Also one small potentially controversial decision here that I find amusing in a narcissism of small differences kind of way, Mormons aren't considered Christian according to this list.

LastTrain 4mo ago
That is actually quite useful if you are wanting to drive a wedge between LDS and Trump - there goes Utah and eastern Idaho
- herewulf 4mo ago
  Those places have never liked Trump, as immoral as he is perceived, but they consistently put their conservatism first when it comes time to vote. I don't see this situation changing any time soon.
ajcp 4mo ago
one core tenant of Christianity is that Christ the Messiah obviates prophecy. No denomination of Christianity (AFAIK) considers the LDS as true Christians...except for the LDS themselves
- defrost 4mo ago
  Just to clear this up, all the various "Christian" ministries that embrace modern prophecy and prophets are, therefore, not actually Christian? From the beginning of the Assemblies of God, prophecy has been affirmed as a spiritual gift for the Church today. Since the Day of Pentecost, the Church has functioned as a prophetic community. Any Spirit-filled believer may prophesy while discernment and judgment of prophecy belong to the full body of Christ. ~ https://ag.org/Beliefs/Position-Papers/Modern-Day-Prophecy https://ag.org/Beliefs/Position-Papers/Modern-Day-Prophecy ( no vested interest here, I've got Wagyl riding shotgun on the stagecoach of my life )
  - slg 4mo ago
    And to make it clear since you didn't say it, Assemblies of God is on the list categorized as Christian while the LDS Church isn't, so this doesn't appear to be the distinction the list makers had in mind.
  - CobaltFire 4mo ago
    Had to look Wagyl up. Thanks for teaching me something new!
    - defrost 4mo ago
      Glad that was of interest, the works of Wagyl are held sacred to some: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djEqLRdqScM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djEqLRdqScM although many entities vie for riding shotgun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThLdUGczSNw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThLdUGczSNw
- asplake 4mo ago
  Not a core tenet [note 1] at all - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism_versus_continuationism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism_versus_continuati... [note 1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/tenant-vs-tenet-difference-usage https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/tenant-vs-tenet-diff...
jltsiren 4mo ago
The choice with Mormons is technically correct. Those who use theological considerations to define Christianity generally don't accept Mormons as Christians. For example, the Catholic Church sees Mormonism a non-Christian religion, because it rejects the Nicene Creed. People who base Christianity on cultural identity are more likely to include Mormons in the definition.
- slg 4mo ago
  And yet Jehovah's Witnesses are denoted on the list as a Christian faith. So whatever the distinction that is being made here, it isn't simply rejection of the Nicene Creed.
- zzo38computer 4mo ago
  It does seem to be common to make LDS not counted as Christianity, although the reason is unclear to me. Another comment mentions that the rejection of the Nicene Creed does not seem to be the distinction. I had thought that it is because they have the Book of Mormon, although that is unclear. Orthodox have additional books of the Bible that Catholics do not have, but are still Christian. (Although, I think the additional books that the Orthodox have are still a part of the Bible, and Book of Mormon is different.) Something that I had heard is that it is because Mormons use a different baptism, which is not Trinitarian. However, it seems that it is Trinitarian, although this trinity is different from that of Christians (even though they still say "the Father", "the Son", and "the Holy Spirit"). Quakers (which are listed as Christian) also apparently do not use baptism (and reject other sacraments as well). Although the Religious Society of Friends is Christian, they do have differences and not all Quakers are necessarily Christian (or necessarily theists). So, I don't know.
  - thesuperbigfrog 4mo ago
    >> Something that I had heard is that it is because Mormons use a different baptism, which is not Trinitarian. However, it seems that it is Trinitarian, although this trinity is different from that of Christians (even though they still say "the Father", "the Son", and "the Holy Spirit"). I had not heard that so I looked it up: ----------- Catholic baptism: “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” The matter is the water poured over the head of the recipient. Traditionally, the one being baptized has water poured over them or is fully emerged in water three times. Source: https://ascensionpress.com/blogs/articles/the-ultimate-guide-to-catholic-baptism https://ascensionpress.com/blogs/articles/the-ultimate-guide... (Some) Protestant baptism: Each candidate is presented by name to the Celebrant, or to an assisting priest or deacon, who then immerses, or pours water upon, the candidate, saying N., I baptize you in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Source: https://www.bcponline.org/Baptism/holybaptism.html https://www.bcponline.org/Baptism/holybaptism.html (Some groups do it differently, but this seems to be common.) Mormon baptism: 73 The person who is called of God and has authority from Jesus Christ to baptize, shall go down into the water with the person who has presented himself or herself for baptism, and shall say, calling him or her by name: Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. 74 Then shall he immerse him or her in the water, and come forth again out of the water. Source: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/20?lang=eng&id=p73#p73 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-test... ----------- I am not an expert, but they all seem mostly the same to me?
Rekindle8090 4mo ago
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by slg 4mo ago

LastTrain 4mo ago

That is actually quite useful if you are wanting to drive a wedge between LDS and Trump - there goes Utah and eastern Idaho

herewulf 4mo ago
Those places have never liked Trump, as immoral as he is perceived, but they consistently put their conservatism first when it comes time to vote. I don't see this situation changing any time soon.

ajcp 4mo ago

one core tenant of Christianity is that Christ the Messiah obviates prophecy. No denomination of Christianity (AFAIK) considers the LDS as true Christians...except for the LDS themselves

defrost 4mo ago
Just to clear this up, all the various "Christian" ministries that embrace modern prophecy and prophets are, therefore, not actually Christian? From the beginning of the Assemblies of God, prophecy has been affirmed as a spiritual gift for the Church today. Since the Day of Pentecost, the Church has functioned as a prophetic community. Any Spirit-filled believer may prophesy while discernment and judgment of prophecy belong to the full body of Christ. ~ https://ag.org/Beliefs/Position-Papers/Modern-Day-Prophecy https://ag.org/Beliefs/Position-Papers/Modern-Day-Prophecy ( no vested interest here, I've got Wagyl riding shotgun on the stagecoach of my life )
- slg 4mo ago
  And to make it clear since you didn't say it, Assemblies of God is on the list categorized as Christian while the LDS Church isn't, so this doesn't appear to be the distinction the list makers had in mind.
- CobaltFire 4mo ago
  Had to look Wagyl up. Thanks for teaching me something new!
  - defrost 4mo ago
    Glad that was of interest, the works of Wagyl are held sacred to some: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djEqLRdqScM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djEqLRdqScM although many entities vie for riding shotgun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThLdUGczSNw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThLdUGczSNw
asplake 4mo ago
Not a core tenet [note 1] at all - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism_versus_continuationism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessationism_versus_continuati... [note 1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/tenant-vs-tenet-difference-usage https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/tenant-vs-tenet-diff...

jltsiren 4mo ago

The choice with Mormons is technically correct. Those who use theological considerations to define Christianity generally don't accept Mormons as Christians. For example, the Catholic Church sees Mormonism a non-Christian religion, because it rejects the Nicene Creed. People who base Christianity on cultural identity are more likely to include Mormons in the definition.

slg 4mo ago
And yet Jehovah's Witnesses are denoted on the list as a Christian faith. So whatever the distinction that is being made here, it isn't simply rejection of the Nicene Creed.
zzo38computer 4mo ago
It does seem to be common to make LDS not counted as Christianity, although the reason is unclear to me. Another comment mentions that the rejection of the Nicene Creed does not seem to be the distinction. I had thought that it is because they have the Book of Mormon, although that is unclear. Orthodox have additional books of the Bible that Catholics do not have, but are still Christian. (Although, I think the additional books that the Orthodox have are still a part of the Bible, and Book of Mormon is different.) Something that I had heard is that it is because Mormons use a different baptism, which is not Trinitarian. However, it seems that it is Trinitarian, although this trinity is different from that of Christians (even though they still say "the Father", "the Son", and "the Holy Spirit"). Quakers (which are listed as Christian) also apparently do not use baptism (and reject other sacraments as well). Although the Religious Society of Friends is Christian, they do have differences and not all Quakers are necessarily Christian (or necessarily theists). So, I don't know.
- thesuperbigfrog 4mo ago
  >> Something that I had heard is that it is because Mormons use a different baptism, which is not Trinitarian. However, it seems that it is Trinitarian, although this trinity is different from that of Christians (even though they still say "the Father", "the Son", and "the Holy Spirit"). I had not heard that so I looked it up: ----------- Catholic baptism: “I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” The matter is the water poured over the head of the recipient. Traditionally, the one being baptized has water poured over them or is fully emerged in water three times. Source: https://ascensionpress.com/blogs/articles/the-ultimate-guide-to-catholic-baptism https://ascensionpress.com/blogs/articles/the-ultimate-guide... (Some) Protestant baptism: Each candidate is presented by name to the Celebrant, or to an assisting priest or deacon, who then immerses, or pours water upon, the candidate, saying N., I baptize you in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Source: https://www.bcponline.org/Baptism/holybaptism.html https://www.bcponline.org/Baptism/holybaptism.html (Some groups do it differently, but this seems to be common.) Mormon baptism: 73 The person who is called of God and has authority from Jesus Christ to baptize, shall go down into the water with the person who has presented himself or herself for baptism, and shall say, calling him or her by name: Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. 74 Then shall he immerse him or her in the water, and come forth again out of the water. Source: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/20?lang=eng&id=p73#p73 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-test... ----------- I am not an expert, but they all seem mostly the same to me?

Rekindle8090 4mo ago

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