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DoD Officially Drops 180 Faiths from Military's Recognized Religion List
- uneekname 4mo agoThey don't recognize atheists anymore? Am I reading that right?
- atrus 4mo agoNo religion on the list, I suppose that counts.
- throwaway81523 4mo agoOk I looked at the list. There are 31 entries, which are "no religion", "agnostic", Baha'i, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Sikh, and 22 different varities of Christian (Baptist, Catholic, etc.). Sheesh. At least they didn't get all the way to “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912". (explanation: https://www.fpcmarion.org/2024/04/die-heretic/ https://www.fpcmarion.org/2024/04/die-heretic/ )
- ChrisMarshallNY 4mo agoHere's the video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANNX_XiuA78 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANNX_XiuA78
- throwaway81523 4mo agoHeh nothing like what I'd have guessed. There's also this: https://theonion.com/various-deities-still-sorting-through-victims-of-tragic-1819569242/ https://theonion.com/various-deities-still-sorting-through-v...
- ChrisMarshallNY 4mo agoEmo Phillips is a weird comedian. Can be quite funny, though.
- uneekname 4mo agoAh yeah I missed that. Thanks
- cpfohl 4mo agoUh, honest question: why would you put atheist on a list of religions? Like…leave the religion off the dog tag and that communicates enough right? What’s there to recognize? I’m super not trying to be antagonistic. I’m trying to understand why an atheist would be upset by this.
- Atotalnoob 4mo agoReligion provides certain benefits in the military. If you are say a Christian, you get assigned time to go to a (hopefully) air conditioned church and relax and recover. Even if it’s short, it can be beneficial to collect yourself in a high stress situation like basic training/boot camp. If you elect not to go to a religious service, you typically have to keep doing whatever you are doing. Atheists or other less organized religions should be treated equally under the law. If a Christian gets a 90 minute religious service, an atheist should also get 90 minutes to do whatever they want. You also see this reflected with something like The Satanic Temple advocating for human rights under the guise of religion. In my opinion, religious organizations should not have any more rights or privileges than businesses.
- rubyfan 4mo agoThis was true 20 years ago (not sure about now). As an atheist/agnostic in basic training I used to try different church services to get away from the barracks on Sundays. If you didn’t you were definitely assigned some cleaning detail instead of having down time. At the time it didn’t come across as discrimination and felt more like a way to keep control. At various times when control was lax bad stuff happened, e.g. fighting, sex, awol, etc. In a new light this does seem like it has a disparate impact.
- cpfohl 4mo agoGot it, that helps me understand. I am curious how the variety of faith based practices could be handled…I’m super on board with providing a universal spiritual/mental health space regardless of your affiliation. That gets very weird when you start having to account for the variety of schedules and practices. I am pretty sure I disagree on religious orgs having no more rights than a business. I think that seriously under accounts for the degree of identity that folks get from their religious affiliations and the types of activities businesses and religious groups tend to do. A business and religious group are pretty fundamentally different…I’d have to reflect a lot longer and harder to come up with a more stable and coherent stance on that. I can definitely think of valid arguments on either side.
- readthenotes1 4mo agoIs "no religion" atheist? Or is "Atheism" an organized religion now?
- AndrewKemendo 4mo agoNo religion = atheism That’s what was officially on my docs, the whole time while in the Air Force Athiesm continues to not be a religion despite religious people trying to make it stick
- normalaccess 4mo agoI don't know... The null set is still a set.
- AndrewKemendo 4mo agoYes but that’s only half of the atheist equation It’s saying I don’t know and also saying I do not have a belief in any particular thing So it’s accurately: “I don’t know what set it is and I don’t even believe in the concept of a set” So for me I reject the concept because nobody has ever offered their definition of god with a falsifiable hypothesis
- zzo38computer 4mo agoAtheism is not a religion, and someone who is religious can also be atheist (and some religions are not theistic), although having no religion does not necessarily make you atheist either (although many atheists are not religious). (However, considering that, putting "agnostic" in there seems to be strange compared to this.) Howveer, when knowing what should be in the list, there is the question of what the information is used for, in order to know what divisions are helpful for this purpose.
- eqvinox 4mo ago> someone who is religious can also be atheist Technically true but I don't see the word used like that much.
- rubyfan 4mo agoYes it looks that way
- tptacek 4mo agoThey're not tracking atheists or working to measure and expand chaplaincy services for "atheists" separate from "no religion". The religion list doesn't mean that much. The religious respect requirements for the armed forces are codified in law; the DoD can't alter them.
- herewulf 4mo agoOn the contrary I would expect that the most immediate effect is the impossibility of commissioning chaplains for any of the 180 faiths removed from the list. Good luck with that if you're a chaplain candidate who is an ordained minister of "Other". No doubt there are other concrete effects that are buried in reams of DoD policy. However, the message being sent is far clearer. Expect that the goal is to pare down the current list even further in due time.
- mschuster91 4mo ago> The changes were iterated in a May 20, 2026, memorandum issued by the Under Secretary of War and signed by Anthony Tata, under secretary of defense for personnel and readiness of the United States, and obtained by Military.com. FFS there is no such thing as "of war". It's still "of defense" until Congress actually passes a bill. As for the rest of that topic... yeah. Fits the expectations one has these days when thinking about "how can the US Administration screw up the lives of anyone not fitting into the world view the average Fox News audience can squish in their brains".
- halJordan 4mo agoCongress permitted them to create monikers, and they made one. It's not a hill to die on, especially because it's cringe to watch you crucify yourself
- mschuster91 4mo ago> It's not a hill to die on, especially because it's cringe to watch you crucify yourself It absolutely is a hill to die on, because that is how fascism always starts and escalates. It's "tiny" and "petty" stuff that gets done first - think of the "Gulf of Mexico" renaming - and when that does not provoke meaningful resistance, the fascists see that as a sign to tighten the ratchet. And rather sooner than later, we see the East Wing of the White House torn down, dozens of people dead in ICE custody and Trump creating slush funds worth billions of dollars.
- throwaway81523 4mo agoAs long as the flying spaghetti monster is still on the list, I'm fine. First they came for the Buddhists, then they came for the Abrahamics, then the Zoroastrians, but it will be a while yet before they get to me.
- slg 4mo agoIt's notable that the original list with the extra 180 religions was from Trump's first term, so this is another example of the doubling down on white Christian identity politics that has come to define Trump's second term. Also one small potentially controversial decision here that I find amusing in a narcissism of small differences kind of way, Mormons aren't considered Christian according to this list.
- LastTrain 4mo agoThat is actually quite useful if you are wanting to drive a wedge between LDS and Trump - there goes Utah and eastern Idaho
- herewulf 4mo agoThose places have never liked Trump, as immoral as he is perceived, but they consistently put their conservatism first when it comes time to vote. I don't see this situation changing any time soon.
- ajcp 4mo agoone core tenant of Christianity is that Christ the Messiah obviates prophecy. No denomination of Christianity (AFAIK) considers the LDS as true Christians...except for the LDS themselves
- defrost 4mo agoJust to clear this up, all the various "Christian" ministries that embrace modern prophecy and prophets are, therefore, not actually Christian? From the beginning of the Assemblies of God, prophecy has been affirmed as a spiritual gift for the Church today. Since the Day of Pentecost, the Church has functioned as a prophetic community. Any Spirit-filled believer may prophesy while discernment and judgment of prophecy belong to the full body of Christ. ~ https://ag.org/Beliefs/Position-Papers/Modern-Day-Prophecy https://ag.org/Beliefs/Position-Papers/Modern-Day-Prophecy ( no vested interest here, I've got Wagyl riding shotgun on the stagecoach of my life )
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- elyobo 4mo agoWhat's the effect of this? I don't really understand why they have a "recognised" list at all or what the implications are.
- ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 4mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_symbolism_in_the_United_States_military#Military_ID_tags https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_symbolism_in_the_Uni...
- xboxnolifes 4mo agoVarious laws, regulations, and processes come with religious exceptions. In order to qualify for religious exceptions, you need to follow a qualified religion.
- ChiperSoft 4mo agoThat does explain why Jehovah's Witnesses would be on here. They won multiple court cases to be excluded from military services.
- pseudohadamard 4mo agoThey go on your dog tags to make sure that, if you're killed, your body is handled in a manner appropriate for your religious beliefs. As I expected given who this is coming from, the choices are "Christian, Christian, Christian, Christian, Christian, Christian, Christian, Christian, Christian, Christian, and Leftovers".
- gslepak 4mo agoHere's the previous list: https://americanhumanist.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Faith-and-Belief-Codes-for-Reporting-Personnel-Data-of-Service-Members.pdf https://americanhumanist.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Fait...
- tptacek 4mo agoGot to love a system that recognizes both Eckankar and "Heathen".
- herewulf 4mo agoHeathen is yet another term to describe Germanic paganism which has a similar etymology as the Latin originated word "pagan"[1]. It describes the people "of the heath"[2] — the rural folk who were the last to change their beliefs (as opposed to the city folk following the latest trends). English is unique among Germanic languages for preferring non-native vocabulary but the cognate of "heathen" is extant in every other Germanic language to describe pre-Christian belief. Among modern reconstructionists there is no consensus for a term to describe a belief system that never had a name (because prior to Christianity, it didn't need one). That it is also a Christian pejorative term is irrelevant to the former DoD list. [1]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paganus https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paganus [2]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/heathen#English https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/heathen#English
- big85 4mo agoIt seems the deleted entries mainly consisted of Protestant denominations and Pagan groups. They also removed Atheist as a specific religion, and various entries like None Provided and Unknown. Many two-letter codes were changed, which may be confusing if you have groups of soldiers with a mix of old and new dog-tags.
- derbOac 4mo agoThere are lots of problems with this, but taking off UU is sort of ironic and shortsighted in particular, given that the UU community is probably a good source of chaplains given the nature of the religion. You can see this in the comments.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- JoeAltmaier 4mo agoMy son reports a burst of 'Jewish' soldiers when deployed. Because the rabbi had a rather long service period and he let the soldiers sleep on the benches. He still has his camo yarmulke.
- herewulf 4mo ago> "The new list will provide chaplains with clear, readily available information that will better enable them to anticipate the religious support needs [...]" Emphasis mine. In other words, "our master's degree level educated chaplains are confused by too long of a list". We know what you are really doing and would appreciate more effort in these BS memos.