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Personally, I don’t see any advantage of a real book over an ebook (locally stored) in an e-ink reader. And there are disadvantages: ergonomics, space, cost, en

Personally, I don’t see any advantage of a real book over an ebook (locally stored) in an e-ink reader. And there are disadvantages: ergonomics, space, cost, environment. EDIT: books last longer (decades or centuries) than SSDs. But M-DISCs can allegedly last for millennia.

AlotOfReading 5mo ago
Keep in mind that I primarily consume ebooks, but I generally find books cheaper unless we're counting piracy. You can get physical books from used bookstores for remarkably cheap and ebook/new book prices are kept as close as publishers can get away with. That said, there are clear advantages to books. You can't page through an ebook nearly as well as a physical reference book. That's admittedly somewhat balanced by the existence of search. Physical books can also pay much more attention to the aesthetics of print and layout. Eink readers and epub/mobi/az3 formats are atrocious for this, whereas iPads with PDFs are somewhat better. There's still works that can't be captured in those formats though, like pop-up books, raised/embossed/textured printing (which I've seen used in poetry), or illuminated works. And books don't need power.
dylan604 5mo ago
I hope you're saying that is only applicable to you personally and not applying that to every other human on the planet. There are plenty of real world advantages a physical book has over an ebook, even if you can't think of them. On of my favorites was not having to turn my book off during airplane take off and landing. Also, books do not run out of battery so they do not need to be recharged. You can have multiple books open at the same time, admittedly, this is more for during research times and not just a simple reading session. But I'm not going to sit here typing out every single difference I can think of just because you can't think of any
- Novosell 5mo ago
  Why would you need to turn off the ereader? Just put it in airplane mode.
  - BigTTYGothGF 5mo ago
    I haven't flown in many years (and god willing will never have to again) but at the time you had to turn your electronic stuff off, whether it was in airplane mode or not.
    - armchairhacker 5mo ago
      I’ve only heard, in very rare scenarios (extreme turbulence), passengers asked to turn off their devices during takeoff and landing.
- armchairhacker 5mo ago
  > I hope you're saying that is only applicable to you personally My comment starts with “Personally, …” > not having to turn my book off during airplane take off and landing E-readers don’t need to be always online, some don’t even have cellular > books do not run out of battery so they do not need to be recharged Some e-readers have long battery life, and most support wireless charging (https://zens.tech/pages/which-e-readers-support-wireless-charging https://zens.tech/pages/which-e-readers-support-wireless-cha...) > You can have multiple books open at the same time, admittedly, this is more for during research times and not just a simple reading session True, on an e-reader at best you can have a couple books at half size (side-by-side), although you can switch between books fast and it remembers where you left off
- WolfeReader 5mo ago
  Those are some incredibly minor advantages. The advantages of ebooks - easy backups, infinitesimal physical storage requirements, searchability, accessibility for people with visual needs - each one of those outweighs every advantage you listed.
BoingBoomTschak 5mo ago
An embarrassingly large number of epubs have absolute no care put into formatting, in my experience. That and how do I get my "old book paper smell" fix and those beautifully illustrated hardback covers neatly lined on my shelves? Otherwise, I agree.
- gf263 5mo ago
  Shoutout to https://standardebooks.org/ https://standardebooks.org/, amazingly formatted classics
skydhash 5mo ago
In terms of content, there’s not much pros. But we are physical creatures and the physicality of a book can be an (pleasurable?) experience in itself.
dakiol 5mo ago
For me the advantage is simplicity. I pick up the book and I read it. No matter where or when, I know I can read it. If the book gets damaged, I pick up another book, I don't mind. The problem with digital books is that I need 3 different things working together: 1) a (charged) reading device, 2) corresponding software, 3) the actual digital book. So the reading device can be put in unmaintained mode any time by the company who sells it. That sucks. Same goes for the corresponding software, although in this case I have more flexibility sometimes (i.e., I can install some open source software... but that's a hassle in itself). As per the actual digital book, don't get me started with DRM. One can pirate books, though, but then some people have ethical considerations. I typically buy second-hand books. It's the best deal for me because I don't have the feeling to be super protective with them, and they are very cheap.
- armchairhacker 5mo ago
  The reading device, software, and books shouldn’t be locked down or remotely controlled. Buy a BOOX, Kobo, or jailbroken old Kindle. You do need to set up the right software and make charging a habit (which can be helped by buying a wireless charger), but picking up an e-reader and just reading can be as fast and easy as a physical book. And getting new digital books is faster and easier. I admit, books have the advantage in durability and individual cost.
julianeon 5mo ago
There are some fields where there are a real measurable advantages of physical books, essentially as an archive. I can name two: 1) Chemical Engineering 2) Classics In both cases the physical book may be the only place to find certain kinds of valuable info. In the case of Chem E, I was told this by my father, also a Chem E, who said that some of these old books contained values and tests that were found nowhere else. And while a lot of that is available in modern form, not all of it is. In the case of classics, I'm cribbing from David Butterfield here, who has a great book tour on YouTube where expands on this at length (4+ hours). In the 18th and 19th century the level of education was higher and there were simply more people around who were working at the highest level in the field. Their speculations were written down in physical books and nowhere else. Many of these were valuable and showed new insights you won't find elsewhere else, especially for professionals in the field. Here's an example. The copies that we have of, say, Homer, are copies of copies. Pretend for a moment that Homer actually wrote in English. We can imagine a line in the "original" (a copy of a copy), that says: He of the stout quarrel chest said: It kinda works - stout men quarrel, I guess. But you know what would work even better? He of the stout barrel chest. You can make a case that this was an instance of bad copying and should be corrected in editions going forward, especially if you can cite additional evidence. Multiple this by the Greek & Roman corpus and all the possible permutations and you have a good reason to turn to those books that earlier writers thought very deeply about.
- armchairhacker 5mo ago
  If the only copy is physical, you should scan it and upload it to the Internet.
- BigTTYGothGF 5mo ago
  > There are some fields where there are a real measurable advantages of physical books, essentially as an archive. Their advantage isn't that they're physical, their advantage is that they haven't yet been scanned in.
benrutter 5mo ago
> there are disadvantages: ergonomics, space, cost, environment. I read a lot, was really into ebooks and now mostly buy paper books. The inverse of the cost point iis a big reason, cost of ebooks is much more than paper books in a lot of cases because there is no second hand ebook market. Environmentally I think it's complicated- an ebook is certainly better, but an ebook reader itself is much worse for the environment than many books. I can't claim any moral high ground since I have both.
- TFNA 5mo ago
  You don't have to actually pay for ebooks. I have been an avid reader on a Kindle and then a Kobo for over a decade, and I have never once bought an ebook. Even in 2015 the shadow libraries already had nearly everything I was ever looking for. Nowadays with Anna's Archive, downloading ebooks is made so convenient that even my normie friends use it.
Finnucane 5mo ago
There's no environmental cost for ebooks? Are they produced by magic?

AlotOfReading 5mo ago

Keep in mind that I primarily consume ebooks, but I generally find books cheaper unless we're counting piracy. You can get physical books from used bookstores for remarkably cheap and ebook/new book prices are kept as close as publishers can get away with. That said, there are clear advantages to books. You can't page through an ebook nearly as well as a physical reference book. That's admittedly somewhat balanced by the existence of search. Physical books can also pay much more attention to the aesthetics of print and layout. Eink readers and epub/mobi/az3 formats are atrocious for this, whereas iPads with PDFs are somewhat better. There's still works that can't be captured in those formats though, like pop-up books, raised/embossed/textured printing (which I've seen used in poetry), or illuminated works. And books don't need power.

dylan604 5mo ago

I hope you're saying that is only applicable to you personally and not applying that to every other human on the planet. There are plenty of real world advantages a physical book has over an ebook, even if you can't think of them. On of my favorites was not having to turn my book off during airplane take off and landing. Also, books do not run out of battery so they do not need to be recharged. You can have multiple books open at the same time, admittedly, this is more for during research times and not just a simple reading session. But I'm not going to sit here typing out every single difference I can think of just because you can't think of any

Novosell 5mo ago
Why would you need to turn off the ereader? Just put it in airplane mode.
- BigTTYGothGF 5mo ago
  I haven't flown in many years (and god willing will never have to again) but at the time you had to turn your electronic stuff off, whether it was in airplane mode or not.
  - armchairhacker 5mo ago
    I’ve only heard, in very rare scenarios (extreme turbulence), passengers asked to turn off their devices during takeoff and landing.
armchairhacker 5mo ago
> I hope you're saying that is only applicable to you personally My comment starts with “Personally, …” > not having to turn my book off during airplane take off and landing E-readers don’t need to be always online, some don’t even have cellular > books do not run out of battery so they do not need to be recharged Some e-readers have long battery life, and most support wireless charging (https://zens.tech/pages/which-e-readers-support-wireless-charging https://zens.tech/pages/which-e-readers-support-wireless-cha...) > You can have multiple books open at the same time, admittedly, this is more for during research times and not just a simple reading session True, on an e-reader at best you can have a couple books at half size (side-by-side), although you can switch between books fast and it remembers where you left off
WolfeReader 5mo ago
Those are some incredibly minor advantages. The advantages of ebooks - easy backups, infinitesimal physical storage requirements, searchability, accessibility for people with visual needs - each one of those outweighs every advantage you listed.

BoingBoomTschak 5mo ago

An embarrassingly large number of epubs have absolute no care put into formatting, in my experience. That and how do I get my "old book paper smell" fix and those beautifully illustrated hardback covers neatly lined on my shelves? Otherwise, I agree.

gf263 5mo ago
Shoutout to https://standardebooks.org/ https://standardebooks.org/, amazingly formatted classics

skydhash 5mo ago

In terms of content, there’s not much pros. But we are physical creatures and the physicality of a book can be an (pleasurable?) experience in itself.

dakiol 5mo ago

For me the advantage is simplicity. I pick up the book and I read it. No matter where or when, I know I can read it. If the book gets damaged, I pick up another book, I don't mind. The problem with digital books is that I need 3 different things working together: 1) a (charged) reading device, 2) corresponding software, 3) the actual digital book. So the reading device can be put in unmaintained mode any time by the company who sells it. That sucks. Same goes for the corresponding software, although in this case I have more flexibility sometimes (i.e., I can install some open source software... but that's a hassle in itself). As per the actual digital book, don't get me started with DRM. One can pirate books, though, but then some people have ethical considerations. I typically buy second-hand books. It's the best deal for me because I don't have the feeling to be super protective with them, and they are very cheap.

armchairhacker 5mo ago
The reading device, software, and books shouldn’t be locked down or remotely controlled. Buy a BOOX, Kobo, or jailbroken old Kindle. You do need to set up the right software and make charging a habit (which can be helped by buying a wireless charger), but picking up an e-reader and just reading can be as fast and easy as a physical book. And getting new digital books is faster and easier. I admit, books have the advantage in durability and individual cost.

julianeon 5mo ago

There are some fields where there are a real measurable advantages of physical books, essentially as an archive. I can name two: 1) Chemical Engineering 2) Classics In both cases the physical book may be the only place to find certain kinds of valuable info. In the case of Chem E, I was told this by my father, also a Chem E, who said that some of these old books contained values and tests that were found nowhere else. And while a lot of that is available in modern form, not all of it is. In the case of classics, I'm cribbing from David Butterfield here, who has a great book tour on YouTube where expands on this at length (4+ hours). In the 18th and 19th century the level of education was higher and there were simply more people around who were working at the highest level in the field. Their speculations were written down in physical books and nowhere else. Many of these were valuable and showed new insights you won't find elsewhere else, especially for professionals in the field. Here's an example. The copies that we have of, say, Homer, are copies of copies. Pretend for a moment that Homer actually wrote in English. We can imagine a line in the "original" (a copy of a copy), that says: He of the stout quarrel chest said: It kinda works - stout men quarrel, I guess. But you know what would work even better? He of the stout barrel chest. You can make a case that this was an instance of bad copying and should be corrected in editions going forward, especially if you can cite additional evidence. Multiple this by the Greek & Roman corpus and all the possible permutations and you have a good reason to turn to those books that earlier writers thought very deeply about.

armchairhacker 5mo ago
If the only copy is physical, you should scan it and upload it to the Internet.
BigTTYGothGF 5mo ago
> There are some fields where there are a real measurable advantages of physical books, essentially as an archive. Their advantage isn't that they're physical, their advantage is that they haven't yet been scanned in.

benrutter 5mo ago

> there are disadvantages: ergonomics, space, cost, environment. I read a lot, was really into ebooks and now mostly buy paper books. The inverse of the cost point iis a big reason, cost of ebooks is much more than paper books in a lot of cases because there is no second hand ebook market. Environmentally I think it's complicated- an ebook is certainly better, but an ebook reader itself is much worse for the environment than many books. I can't claim any moral high ground since I have both.

TFNA 5mo ago
You don't have to actually pay for ebooks. I have been an avid reader on a Kindle and then a Kobo for over a decade, and I have never once bought an ebook. Even in 2015 the shadow libraries already had nearly everything I was ever looking for. Nowadays with Anna's Archive, downloading ebooks is made so convenient that even my normie friends use it.

Finnucane 5mo ago

There's no environmental cost for ebooks? Are they produced by magic?