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Related Veritasium video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz23G_UXCGA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz23G_UXCGA
by yladiz 4mo ago
Related Veritasium video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz23G_UXCGA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz23G_UXCGA
- sippeangelo 4mo agoThe theory that they broadcast communication on a band near GPS in order to discourage jamming of their early warning system sounds likely. Flexing the ability to jam GPS is pointless, since it's obvious that any state actor who has military satellites in orbit has considered this option or have the capability already. Therefore, the disruptions must either be regular tests of the capability, or just actual communication. Right?
- wcarss 4mo agoOr actual jamming mistargeted for some reason, or used because it was deemed necessary.
- alex_duf 4mo agoRepeatedly, over years, only for 2 to 5 seconds at a time? Seems unlikely
- wcarss 4mo agoyeah, I have to admit I was commenting on possibilities here without having gone into the article yet -- having now looked for real, I agree that the disruptions don't seem very useful for actual jamming and repeatedly like this for years across satellites and bands in this specific way doesn't make sense for some mistaken targeting either.
- idiotsecant 4mo agoThere is a very good reason to do this. Suppose you had a device that would make the shoplifting detectors at stores go off. The first time you did it everyone would get hassled. And the second time and so forth. But if you kept doing it eventually the employees would stop caring. Then you just walk out the door with your stuff.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- throw0101a 4mo ago> Flexing the ability to jam GPS is pointless, since it's obvious that any state actor who has military satellites in orbit has considered this option or have the capability already. Forget "state actors", truck drivers have taken out entire airports with GPS jammers: * https://www.cnet.com/culture/truck-driver-has-gps-jammer-accidentally-jams-newark-airport/ https://www.cnet.com/culture/truck-driver-has-gps-jammer-acc... People like the Resilient Navigation and Timing Foundation have been trying for years to get some kind of GNSS backup accepted: * https://rntfnd.org https://rntfnd.org China has certainly put their money into resiliency (both navigation and timing): * https://www.gpsworld.com/china-completes-national-eloran-network/ https://www.gpsworld.com/china-completes-national-eloran-net... * https://rntfnd.org//2026/03/19/china-has-built-a-triad-of-satellites-towers-and-fibre-to-never-lose-its-way-in-war-india-doesnt-have-one-swarajya/ https://rntfnd.org//2026/03/19/china-has-built-a-triad-of-sa... * https://rntfnd.org/2023/11/28/china-eloran-used-for-critical-infrastructure-extension-to-be-complete-by-2026-new-paper/ https://rntfnd.org/2023/11/28/china-eloran-used-for-critical... Some folks are certainly cluing in: South Korea has (e)Loran and the UK and France are joining up with them: * https://rntfnd.org/2025/04/30/the-uks-system-of-systems-approach-to-robust-pnt-inside-gnss/ https://rntfnd.org/2025/04/30/the-uks-system-of-systems-appr... * https://rntfnd.org/2025/11/12/s-korea-leads-meeting-with-u-k-and-france-on-eloran/ https://rntfnd.org/2025/11/12/s-korea-leads-meeting-with-u-k...
- mrngld 4mo agoThe US still has a fairly robust network of VOR's / VOR with DME / VORTAC stations. Good for navigation, but there's no timing component, beyond what's inherent in how they operate. Admittedly, that'll never be of use outside aviation as its line-of-sight only. But if the sun threw a Carrington event (or worse) at us, I think a lot of western aviation could carry on.
- throw0101c 4mo ago> The US still has a fairly robust network of VOR's / VOR with DME / VORTAC stations. Good for navigation, but there's no timing component, beyond what's inherent in how they operate. Admittedly, that'll never be of use outside aviation […] I'm aware of the FAA's MON, Minimum Operating Network. Exactly: that doesn't help boats. Or people in cars. Or farmers: * https://www.deere.com/en/technology-products/precision-ag-technology/guidance/ https://www.deere.com/en/technology-products/precision-ag-te... It doesn't help those that use GNSS for precise timing (TCXOes can only 'free run' for a finite amount of time before drift compounds 'too much').
- Havoc 4mo agoUnless the actor happens to be a state that puts a great deal of emphasis on flexing & appearances regardless of how pointless it is
- rcxdude 4mo agoThere is definitely value in having a demonstrated as opposed a simply supposed capability, though. And actions that are 'almost-certainly-but-not-completely-provably-us' is very much something Russia likes to do. (One question I would have about the comms theory is whether the amount of power being used would be reasonable for that use-case. Jamming tends to be much higher power than just communicating, but also GNSS signals are very low bandwidth as comms channels go)
- ralferoo 4mo ago> One question I would have about the comms theory is whether the amount of power being used would be reasonable for that use-case. Jamming tends to be much higher power than just communicating, but also GNSS signals are very low bandwidth as comms channels go GPS is suprisingly low power. I believe the satellites themselves transmit between 20W and 50W, and in general the signal is quieter than the background noise threshold. It's only by correlating with the PRNG stream [1] that the data signal can be detected at all [2]. [1] The PRNG stream is 1023 bits at 1.023Mbps, so repeats every 1ms, and only autocorrelates with the correct stream when they are aligned. When the streams are not aligned, the data looks like random noise, and each transmitter has a different LFSR configuration to provide a different sequence such that each stream has a low level of correlation with another. [2] The PRNG stream bits at 1.023Mbps are exclusive-or'd with the data stream at 50bps, so when the decoder is using the correct PRNG and sequence offset, exclusive-or'ing with that produces detectable long pulses at the expected 50bps.
- trumpdong 4mo agoFWIW this is how almost every communication system works. They're all weaker than background noise (e.g. sunlight) but you extract them by correlating with some kind of carrier signal (often but not always a sine wave)
- labcomputer 4mo agoErr what? No, conventional radio broadcasts can be received with a low noise amplifier and a tuned filter. The received GPS signal, at ground level, is lower than the thermal noise floor. And the 1.023MHz code is modulated on the RF carrier anyway.
- ordu 4mo ago> The theory that they broadcast communication on a band near GPS in order to discourage jamming of their early warning system sounds likely. Is it? If it is an early warning system, could it be jammed briefly so it would fail to warn, couldn't it? It will be a global disruption of GPS, but a brief one and I'm sure people wouldn't be concerned of it due to other news. > Flexing the ability to jam GPS is pointless Do you believe that cutting sea cables is a sensible action? Or sending drones to neighbors? It is what they call "hybrid asymmetric warfare", I'm not sure how it is supposed to work, but presumably it may let them take over the world or something. Probably they just strive to normalize deviations, to boil frog slowly. When people become used to some stupid actions they widen their repertoire, until everything short of tanks crossing the borders became just normal news noise nobody reads twice.
- smilespray 4mo agoAKA Salami Tactics, famously referred to in the UK sitcom "Yes, Prime Minister" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing_tactics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing_tactics
- fsmv 4mo agoPresumably the missile needs GPS to hit the target so if you jam right when the missile is coming in the missile will miss so you can't really jam the warning Also if you broadcast noise when your missile is about to hit then your own jamming signal acts as an early warning as well, although I guess it wouldn't provide location.
- stouset 4mo agoICBMs don’t rely on GPS. They are typically self-guided and use a blend of their known launch location, inertial navigation using gyroscopes, celestial navigation (yes, looking at stars), and a few other techniques.
- jandrewrogers 4mo agoUS weapon systems have never relied on GPS for guidance. Some will accept GPS corrections to the primary inertial guidance system but those corrections will be rejected if they deviate more than a few meters from the inertial guidance. US missiles in particular use precision terminal guidance which doesn't involve GPS at all; in these systems GPS would only be used to correct mid-course guidance. There has been anecdotal evidence for years suggesting that the latest US inertial guidance technology is sufficiently precise and accurate that GPS correction no longer adds value.
- Scroll_Swe 4mo ago>Flexing the ability to jam GPS is pointless No, Russia does these "tests" all the time to see and gauge the reactions. Ex flying just a bit into EU airspace. https://euromaidanpress.com/2026/06/05/nato-fighters-intercept-six-russian-military-aircraft-over-the-baltic-in-a-single-day/ https://euromaidanpress.com/2026/06/05/nato-fighters-interce...
- aaron695 4mo ago[dead]
- codedokode 4mo agoWhy these capabilities, if they exist, were not used to send Iranian drones to a wrong target? Maybe because they do not exist. Israel definitely would be happy if thousands of drones were rerouted to a neighbour country or into the sea.
- scotty79 4mo agoAre there any credible reports of Iran hitting any intended target smaller than a city? Because the drone doesn't need to have GPS for that.
- actionfromafar 4mo agoAmerican AWACS bombed on the ground, that is smaller than a city.
- scotty79 4mo agoEven if that's for communication, repurposing it for mass jamming shouldn't be that hard. It already has this effect. Unless it's low power satellites that wouldn't be able to sustain radio signal in anything longer than short bursts.
- atleta 4mo agoThe flexing seems stupid, but also if it's a communication channel, they have given themselves away (just as if they were flexing with the jamming).
- sam_lowry_ 4mo agoThe video did not settle on the jamming of von der Leyen plane on approach to Plovdiv, but AFAIR it was a (likely unintentional) lie. Never acknowledged by von der Leyen nor by her press secretary because it exposed the lack of basic world knowledge around von der Leyen and her office.
- sam_lowry_ 4mo agoWhy downvotes? Here's the press conference where it was announced: https://audiovisual.ec.europa.eu/en/media/video/I-276341 https://audiovisual.ec.europa.eu/en/media/video/I-276341 FlightRadar24 disproved the story shortly after: https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1962565122326700178 https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1962565122326700178 TLDR: Neither von den Leyen nor her office knew about ADB-S nor about the multiple services that collect ADB-S broadcasts and republish, and there was none around who could stop them from announcing an embarrassing lie.
- embedding-shape 4mo ago> Why downvotes? Probably because some missing mention of some specific thing you care deeply about doesn't imply "lack of basic world knowledge" for an entire political office, really strange thing to say and most likely why people are downvoting. It's neither kind, curious and definitively a snark/swipe that doesn't really add anything to the point you were trying to make.
- sam_lowry_ 4mo agoI think you normalize the deviation, here. If you listen to the press conference, Podesta (the press secretary) spoke about the plane circling and not being able to land. When preparing the press conference, she should have checked if this obvious lie can be obviously disproved, but she did not. This probably means that she did not know this was a lie, but then someone who ordered this to be announced knew. My bet is that von der Leyen or her close aide told Podesta to announce the lie in these terms, and the thing that worries me as a European is that there was none to warn these war-mongering ladies that they are making a mistake. This whole situation screams for an intern that sets up the mics and has a callsign and who can stop Podesta as she walks to the pied de stal of shame and explain that the position of planes is monitored all the time and is public information. But I bet that all their interns are servile 3rd generation eurocrats. P.S. The whole press conference (and many others) are fascinating to listen to. The language these people use is softened by the media. What do you think von der Leyen was doing on that plane? She was going "along the frontline" to inspect our preparedness for war where "the frontline" is the Eastern EU border. P.P.S The story made rounds in EU circles, and there was a parliamentary question offering a chance to apologize, but von der Leyen chose to ignore it.
- sschueller 4mo ago[flagged]
- TiredOfLife 4mo agoRussia is currently waging a huge war with europe. While your country is helping them just like they helped nazis in ww2
- jaapz 4mo agoBecause the video is based on the research done in this article, it even specifically calls out the article's authors in the description
- TechSquidTV 4mo agoAm I correct it looks like this was published 3 days ago? They made that video.. in essentially 2 days?
- yladiz 4mo agoI doubt it based solely on that there are multiple interviews including from one of the paper’s authors. Given that Veritasium is a very well known channel at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if they were contacted instead and then roughly coordinated the timing of the paper and video release together.
- nativeit 4mo agoIs that normal? To promote a research paper in ArXiv so heavily? I think the parent comment’s concerns still apply, saying a large, well-funded YouTube channel is specifically releasing coordinated content to promote this prompts more questions than it answers, in my mind.
- mbreese 4mo agoYes it is common, just not always to the scale of a Veritasium video. Usually it’s just the press office for a university putting out a press release or a summary article in Scientific American. But in the case where the story is interesting to a larger audience, having a push behind a story across non-academic media is not unheard of. If you can get some media coverage of an academic topic, it can be very beneficial to the researchers’ careers. One goal for a researcher is to bring notoriety to their research, to their institution, and to the field in general. This is the main motivation I see. The authors may have pushed the arxiv paper out earlier due to the timing of the release of the video.
- throwaway2037 4mo agoEven if you think the information density of YouTube videos is too low (many do on HN), I can confidently say that the visuals are outstanding for (a) how GNSS/GPS works and (b) how they pinpoint'ed the satellite.