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My only problem with C++ is that it’s too verbose. my eyes need to parse huuge chunks of things when I just want some convenient syntax for it. otherwise the id

My only problem with C++ is that it’s too verbose. my eyes need to parse huuge chunks of things when I just want some convenient syntax for it. otherwise the idioms are pretty universal for most programming languages nowadays.

tonyedgecombe 4mo ago
The trouble with that is the more mental capacity you exert on the language the less you have available for the task at hand.
Zardoz84 4mo ago
Try Java
- i_am_a_peasant 4mo ago
  hard pass :D isn't kotlin supposed to be the future for JVM?
  - speed_spread 4mo ago
    Kotlin is the future of maintenance nightmare and Jetbrains lock-in.
    - i_am_a_peasant 4mo ago
      seems to work for android though
einpoklum 4mo ago
C++ is quite amenable to making things less verbose. For example: Instead of a standard library algorithm taking a pair of iterators, you could have a function taking a container and calling the other function with its start() and end(). And then, with newer versions of the language, you can use a ranges-based function. There are lots of such syntactic hacks, from `using` through typed literals all the way to preprocessor macros (which we want to avoid, but are still there). That's how you emulate language features that aren't there originally. I've "impelemented" a static code block, like in Java: https://stackoverflow.com/a/34321324/1593077 https://stackoverflow.com/a/34321324/1593077 and that's all in C++98. The implementation is a bit ugly but the use is terse and self-expalantory.
- i_am_a_peasant 4mo ago
  That's just terrible, I love it.
spacechild1 4mo ago
Interesting, I don't find modern C++ verbose at all. 'auto', range-based for-loops and structured bindings did a great job at reducing the verbosity of C++98. On top of that, C++ allows to design very concise APIs. (One of my favorite examples is sol2: https://github.com/ThePhd/sol2 https://github.com/ThePhd/sol2). Library code involving templates, on the other hand, can be pretty complex and hard to read. Concepts and other C++20 features (like [[no_unique_address]]) are certainly an improvement, but only new projects with no backwards compatibility requirements can actually use them (unconditionally).

tonyedgecombe 4mo ago

The trouble with that is the more mental capacity you exert on the language the less you have available for the task at hand.

Zardoz84 4mo ago

Try Java

i_am_a_peasant 4mo ago
hard pass :D isn't kotlin supposed to be the future for JVM?
- speed_spread 4mo ago
  Kotlin is the future of maintenance nightmare and Jetbrains lock-in.
  - i_am_a_peasant 4mo ago
    seems to work for android though

einpoklum 4mo ago

C++ is quite amenable to making things less verbose. For example: Instead of a standard library algorithm taking a pair of iterators, you could have a function taking a container and calling the other function with its start() and end(). And then, with newer versions of the language, you can use a ranges-based function. There are lots of such syntactic hacks, from `using` through typed literals all the way to preprocessor macros (which we want to avoid, but are still there). That's how you emulate language features that aren't there originally. I've "impelemented" a static code block, like in Java: https://stackoverflow.com/a/34321324/1593077 https://stackoverflow.com/a/34321324/1593077 and that's all in C++98. The implementation is a bit ugly but the use is terse and self-expalantory.

i_am_a_peasant 4mo ago
That's just terrible, I love it.

spacechild1 4mo ago

Interesting, I don't find modern C++ verbose at all. 'auto', range-based for-loops and structured bindings did a great job at reducing the verbosity of C++98. On top of that, C++ allows to design very concise APIs. (One of my favorite examples is sol2: https://github.com/ThePhd/sol2 https://github.com/ThePhd/sol2). Library code involving templates, on the other hand, can be pretty complex and hard to read. Concepts and other C++20 features (like [[no_unique_address]]) are certainly an improvement, but only new projects with no backwards compatibility requirements can actually use them (unconditionally).