3 ms·

Is this where we pretend a bunch of rich market-capitalist European countries are “socialist” or are you talking about China and Vietnam?

ben_w 4mo ago
For some people, even the government interventions by those specific rich market-capitalist European countries are "too socialist" and get the exact same "didn't you realise Stalin killed millions?" kinds of responses.
- NoGravitas 4mo ago
  It's just a motte-and-bailey argument. You say you're okay with social democratic policies when you're opposing anything stronger, but oppose social democratic policies when anyone is trying to actually implement them.
  - ben_w 4mo ago
    That's the point I was making, yes.
throwaway290 4mo ago
PRC is way more capitalist than Norway or some other European countries. Approximately, one is capitalist dictatorship and the other socialist democracy. Yes PRC government was originally propped by USSR but that's it. If you look at labor protection laws, social security, etc it's nowhere near.
bigfudge 4mo ago
You can’t have it both ways though. The policies enacted in Northern Europe would definitely be agreed on as communist/socialist by the majority of mainstream American politicians, Democrats included.
- petesergeant 4mo ago
  > definitely be agreed on as communist/socialist by the majority of mainstream American politicians The US has generous social assistance, just less of it than some European countries. It has unions more powerful than many European countries. Meanwhile the most popular Dem-aligned politician in the US has recently introduced a bill to partly nationalise AI companies. > You can’t have it both ways You’re responding to my first comment in this thread
- boxed 4mo ago
  Small amounts of socialism on top of a solid base of market economy. I'm from Sweden, this is well known but yea, many are super confused about this.

ben_w 4mo ago

For some people, even the government interventions by those specific rich market-capitalist European countries are "too socialist" and get the exact same "didn't you realise Stalin killed millions?" kinds of responses.

NoGravitas 4mo ago
It's just a motte-and-bailey argument. You say you're okay with social democratic policies when you're opposing anything stronger, but oppose social democratic policies when anyone is trying to actually implement them.
- ben_w 4mo ago
  That's the point I was making, yes.

throwaway290 4mo ago

PRC is way more capitalist than Norway or some other European countries. Approximately, one is capitalist dictatorship and the other socialist democracy. Yes PRC government was originally propped by USSR but that's it. If you look at labor protection laws, social security, etc it's nowhere near.

bigfudge 4mo ago

You can’t have it both ways though. The policies enacted in Northern Europe would definitely be agreed on as communist/socialist by the majority of mainstream American politicians, Democrats included.

petesergeant 4mo ago
> definitely be agreed on as communist/socialist by the majority of mainstream American politicians The US has generous social assistance, just less of it than some European countries. It has unions more powerful than many European countries. Meanwhile the most popular Dem-aligned politician in the US has recently introduced a bill to partly nationalise AI companies. > You can’t have it both ways You’re responding to my first comment in this thread
boxed 4mo ago
Small amounts of socialism on top of a solid base of market economy. I'm from Sweden, this is well known but yea, many are super confused about this.