5 ms·

> I have a real issue dividing kids up along these lines. I've found that virtually all young kids love to explore and learn things, and if anything schooling c

> I have a real issue dividing kids up along these lines. I've found that virtually all young kids love to explore and learn things, and if anything schooling can extinguish this innate desire when it becomes a source of stress. This is a very bold claim. I don't think most kids are curious about the multiplication tables

nostrademons 4mo ago
The claim was that "virtually all young kids love to explore and learn things", not that "virtually all young kids love to explore and learn multiplication tables".
- anon-3988 4mo ago
  I can easily claim that most kids are not interested in anything economically valuable. Probably most adults as well.
  - thunderfork 4mo ago
    Well, there's your problem. You've gone from "teach kids" to "economic value". Keep your eye on the ball, not on the stands.
- bigstrat2003 4mo ago
  Sure. But the fact of the matter is that we must teach kids many diverse things, and most of them are going to be things that some (or even most) of the kids have no interest in learning. So one has to grapple with the question of how to teach kids who don't actually care about learning what you're teaching.
ChiperSoft 4mo ago
> I don't think most kids are curious about the multiplication tables Which is exactly why they stopped teaching them in US curriculum under No Child Left Behind.
- rvrs 4mo ago
  what? I started school in the early 2000s, after no child left behind started, and definitely learned multiplication tables lol
  - ChiperSoft 4mo ago
    You're right, apparently this was a much more recent thing and california only. I just knew neither of my kids were taught them, so I assumed it happened longer ago. https://www.thewellnews.com/opinions/california-removes-memorizing-times-tables/ https://www.thewellnews.com/opinions/california-removes-memo...
bawolff 4mo ago
I think a lot of kids can be motivated for that by having a game out of counting in multiples (e.g . Have them count by 4s, 5s, etc). Which is good enough for practical purposes.
graemep 4mo ago
Why learn multiplication tables when everyone carries a computer around with them? My kids never did (ineffective school plus later home education) and are good at maths as adults. A previous HN discussion contained this post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48395840 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48395840 and ultimately this about a successful experiment in other approaches to maths: https://www.inference.org.uk/sanjoy/benezet/1.html https://www.inference.org.uk/sanjoy/benezet/1.html
- revolvingthrow 4mo ago
  Why learn to read and write when everyone carries a computer capable of TTS? Why learn anything when your pocket computer has access to AI doing the thinking much better than the average highschooler and has 100x the knowledge?
  - graemep 4mo ago
    Because learning to read and write still develop your mind and capabilities. memorising stuff does not. A better analogy would be "why stop memorising long works now we can read things instead". No one memorises epic poems anymore but we read novel instead.
- rimliu 4mo ago
  This is very close to "Why use brains".
  - graemep 4mo ago
    No its not, its why use your brains for useless things. Because my kids did not spend as much time on arithmetic and rote learning they learned algebra much earlier than most do. My older daughter did IGCSE physics when she was 11 and maths when she was 12 as a result. Their ability to read was always well ahead of average for their age.
    - HappMacDonald 4mo ago
JoeAltmaier 4mo ago
They may refuse to learn multiplication tables (a popular subject if I remember right, reciting them as far as we could, a competition) while memorizing baseball stats. Kids will learn anything that gives them social standing or self-worth in another way, whatever it takes to be a cool kid.
- lnenad 4mo ago
  > "Kids will learn anything that gives them social standing or self-worth in another way, whatever it takes to be a cool kid." "nerds" would disagree with you. I think the point that OP was trying to make is the three groups are dynamic based on the topic. So the groups are not the same for biology, maths and for literature.
  - Lord-Jobo 4mo ago
    Nerds are a group that have a separate definition of social peer and “cool” but aspire just as much as other groups to achieve social status or coolness. It’s exceptionally rare to encounter any person, adult or otherwise, that genuinely holds no value in any opinion of another. And even those people hold to their own self evaluations which do not spawn from pure noise.

nostrademons 4mo ago

The claim was that "virtually all young kids love to explore and learn things", not that "virtually all young kids love to explore and learn multiplication tables".

anon-3988 4mo ago
I can easily claim that most kids are not interested in anything economically valuable. Probably most adults as well.
- thunderfork 4mo ago
  Well, there's your problem. You've gone from "teach kids" to "economic value". Keep your eye on the ball, not on the stands.
bigstrat2003 4mo ago
Sure. But the fact of the matter is that we must teach kids many diverse things, and most of them are going to be things that some (or even most) of the kids have no interest in learning. So one has to grapple with the question of how to teach kids who don't actually care about learning what you're teaching.

ChiperSoft 4mo ago

> I don't think most kids are curious about the multiplication tables Which is exactly why they stopped teaching them in US curriculum under No Child Left Behind.

rvrs 4mo ago
what? I started school in the early 2000s, after no child left behind started, and definitely learned multiplication tables lol
- ChiperSoft 4mo ago
  You're right, apparently this was a much more recent thing and california only. I just knew neither of my kids were taught them, so I assumed it happened longer ago. https://www.thewellnews.com/opinions/california-removes-memorizing-times-tables/ https://www.thewellnews.com/opinions/california-removes-memo...

bawolff 4mo ago

I think a lot of kids can be motivated for that by having a game out of counting in multiples (e.g . Have them count by 4s, 5s, etc). Which is good enough for practical purposes.

graemep 4mo ago

Why learn multiplication tables when everyone carries a computer around with them? My kids never did (ineffective school plus later home education) and are good at maths as adults. A previous HN discussion contained this post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48395840 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48395840 and ultimately this about a successful experiment in other approaches to maths: https://www.inference.org.uk/sanjoy/benezet/1.html https://www.inference.org.uk/sanjoy/benezet/1.html

revolvingthrow 4mo ago
Why learn to read and write when everyone carries a computer capable of TTS? Why learn anything when your pocket computer has access to AI doing the thinking much better than the average highschooler and has 100x the knowledge?
- graemep 4mo ago
  Because learning to read and write still develop your mind and capabilities. memorising stuff does not. A better analogy would be "why stop memorising long works now we can read things instead". No one memorises epic poems anymore but we read novel instead.
rimliu 4mo ago
This is very close to "Why use brains".
- graemep 4mo ago
  No its not, its why use your brains for useless things. Because my kids did not spend as much time on arithmetic and rote learning they learned algebra much earlier than most do. My older daughter did IGCSE physics when she was 11 and maths when she was 12 as a result. Their ability to read was always well ahead of average for their age.
  - HappMacDonald 4mo ago

JoeAltmaier 4mo ago

They may refuse to learn multiplication tables (a popular subject if I remember right, reciting them as far as we could, a competition) while memorizing baseball stats. Kids will learn anything that gives them social standing or self-worth in another way, whatever it takes to be a cool kid.

lnenad 4mo ago
> "Kids will learn anything that gives them social standing or self-worth in another way, whatever it takes to be a cool kid." "nerds" would disagree with you. I think the point that OP was trying to make is the three groups are dynamic based on the topic. So the groups are not the same for biology, maths and for literature.
- Lord-Jobo 4mo ago
  Nerds are a group that have a separate definition of social peer and “cool” but aspire just as much as other groups to achieve social status or coolness. It’s exceptionally rare to encounter any person, adult or otherwise, that genuinely holds no value in any opinion of another. And even those people hold to their own self evaluations which do not spawn from pure noise.