7 ms·

It turns out that when you level the playing field, girls do better than boys. I don't think it's about the "girl power" nonsense, it's about the ability to sit

It turns out that when you level the playing field, girls do better than boys. I don't think it's about the "girl power" nonsense, it's about the ability to sit down, focus on something, and produce work that meets a certain standard of achievement. I would say the more harmful slogan has been "you're okay just the way you are." I'm not saying we go back to harsh discipline and abuse, but there has to be a middle ground where we hold children, especially boys, to a higher standard.

TheOtherHobbes 4mo ago
Boys have been sitting down, focusing, and producing work that meets a certain standard for most of recorded history. That ability is really not a uniquely feminine trait, and suggesting it is is honestly bizarre. Boys have also been doing more destructive things, but that's a different issue. Boys and girls do struggle with different issues socially and culturally, which is upstream of struggling with them academically. What's consistently missed that education is downstream of socialisation. The experience of learning as a first introduction to culture shapes consequences more than individual techniques do. Part of that is challenging all gender stereotypes. The traditional stereotype was that girls were frankly rather stupid and couldn't handle anything rigorous and challenging. Now the stereotype is that men lack focus, are disorganised, and have poor communication skills. One stereotype has been challenged, the other seems to have replaced it, and younger men have almost been encouraged to live down to it. I don't think as a culture we're emotionally mature enough yet to handle these issues in an effective way, and both education and socialisation will remain problematic until we do.
- rootusrootus 4mo ago
  > One stereotype has been challenged, the other seems to have replaced it, and younger men have almost been encouraged to live down to it. Orthogonal to age and gender both, we got to witness an entire third of the US take "deplorable" as an aspirational goal and live down to it. > I don't think as a culture we're emotionally mature enough You can say that again.
SubmarineClub 4mo ago
> It turns out that when you level the playing field, girls do better than boys. Why is it that when boys/men where outperforming and out-earning women, people were willing to move heaven and earth to correct this terrible injustice, but now when outcomes have reversed (for years at this point) it's considered acceptable to say "Welp, that's just how it goes. Boys just aren't good enough." Hmmm...almost like, it's not a level playing field??
- bluGill 4mo ago
  Until someone can show a real biological difference we should level the playing field. We do know boys mature later which may be reason to not level the field completely, but we should still not allow that as an excuse. If someone shows another difference I will have to think in depth about the details before I can comment.
  - rimliu 4mo ago
    So you claim that biolgically males and females are the same?
    - bluGill 4mo ago
      For the purposes of 'intelligent' which is the topic here.
  - rootusrootus 4mo ago
    > We do know boys mature later which may be reason to not level the field completely, but we should still not allow that as an excuse. I am quite a long ways from right-leaning but this sure does lend credence to their claims of discrimination. If it weren't boys, we'd say that a biological disadvantage is absolutely acceptable as an excuse, and we should try to correct for it.
- ckw 4mo ago
  Approximate shares of undergraduate enrollment by sex: Year Male Female 1970 58% 42% 1975 53% 47% 1980 48% 52% 1985 46% 54% 1990 45% 55% 1995 44.5% 55.5% 2000 43.9% 56.1% 2005 43.3% 56.7% 2010 43.0% 57.0% 2015 43.6% 56.4% 2020 42.7% 57.3% 2025 42.7% 57.3% So men have been in the minority for at least 46 years, and the skew is as large as it was in 1970, but reversed.
saadn92 4mo ago
I disagree. There's cases where girls do better and cases where boys do better. This blanket statement is just as bad as saying that all men/boys are smarter than girls.
- bawis 4mo ago
  Exactly, girls and women can do astonishing work in fields that favour more or less their mutual traits and vice versa, no need for "hehe we are better because GPA said so".

TheOtherHobbes 4mo ago

Boys have been sitting down, focusing, and producing work that meets a certain standard for most of recorded history. That ability is really not a uniquely feminine trait, and suggesting it is is honestly bizarre. Boys have also been doing more destructive things, but that's a different issue. Boys and girls do struggle with different issues socially and culturally, which is upstream of struggling with them academically. What's consistently missed that education is downstream of socialisation. The experience of learning as a first introduction to culture shapes consequences more than individual techniques do. Part of that is challenging all gender stereotypes. The traditional stereotype was that girls were frankly rather stupid and couldn't handle anything rigorous and challenging. Now the stereotype is that men lack focus, are disorganised, and have poor communication skills. One stereotype has been challenged, the other seems to have replaced it, and younger men have almost been encouraged to live down to it. I don't think as a culture we're emotionally mature enough yet to handle these issues in an effective way, and both education and socialisation will remain problematic until we do.

rootusrootus 4mo ago
> One stereotype has been challenged, the other seems to have replaced it, and younger men have almost been encouraged to live down to it. Orthogonal to age and gender both, we got to witness an entire third of the US take "deplorable" as an aspirational goal and live down to it. > I don't think as a culture we're emotionally mature enough You can say that again.

SubmarineClub 4mo ago

> It turns out that when you level the playing field, girls do better than boys. Why is it that when boys/men where outperforming and out-earning women, people were willing to move heaven and earth to correct this terrible injustice, but now when outcomes have reversed (for years at this point) it's considered acceptable to say "Welp, that's just how it goes. Boys just aren't good enough." Hmmm...almost like, it's not a level playing field??

bluGill 4mo ago
Until someone can show a real biological difference we should level the playing field. We do know boys mature later which may be reason to not level the field completely, but we should still not allow that as an excuse. If someone shows another difference I will have to think in depth about the details before I can comment.
- rimliu 4mo ago
  So you claim that biolgically males and females are the same?
  - bluGill 4mo ago
    For the purposes of 'intelligent' which is the topic here.
- rootusrootus 4mo ago
  > We do know boys mature later which may be reason to not level the field completely, but we should still not allow that as an excuse. I am quite a long ways from right-leaning but this sure does lend credence to their claims of discrimination. If it weren't boys, we'd say that a biological disadvantage is absolutely acceptable as an excuse, and we should try to correct for it.
ckw 4mo ago
Approximate shares of undergraduate enrollment by sex: Year Male Female 1970 58% 42% 1975 53% 47% 1980 48% 52% 1985 46% 54% 1990 45% 55% 1995 44.5% 55.5% 2000 43.9% 56.1% 2005 43.3% 56.7% 2010 43.0% 57.0% 2015 43.6% 56.4% 2020 42.7% 57.3% 2025 42.7% 57.3% So men have been in the minority for at least 46 years, and the skew is as large as it was in 1970, but reversed.

saadn92 4mo ago

I disagree. There's cases where girls do better and cases where boys do better. This blanket statement is just as bad as saying that all men/boys are smarter than girls.

bawis 4mo ago
Exactly, girls and women can do astonishing work in fields that favour more or less their mutual traits and vice versa, no need for "hehe we are better because GPA said so".